Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

@Riversideandrelax I take it this is rhetorical question because no - of course they don't.

I feel like I definitely had a lot of teachers at school who were absolutely winging it curriculum wise. It was literally old school. Latin teachers chatting about whatever in between random verb conjugations. English teachers discussing may pal's latest Jilly Cooper novel. Those teachers were also everyone's favourite. Somehow we learned a lot regardless so why does everything have to be so rigidly planned and graded these days. Seems to be a bit of a disaster for everyone. Kids are stressed and teachers clearly aren't coping. Seems like we've lost what learning is even about.

Except presumably you would like professions such as the Police, GPs, hospital & ambulance staff etc. to still be available on a Friday afternoon?

As a working parent (NHS) it is hard enough to get the wrap around care I need to do my job, which also includes long hours where I end up catching up on (frankly excessive) paperwork in my own unpaid time.

This shouldn't be a race to the bottom, none of us should be forced to be doing this, but if schools close early to give teachers more admin time why not just cut back the hours of NHS services while we're at it?

I am in complete admiration of the work teachers do, and ideally the system would be better funded in the first place so staff aren't so stretched, but staff in other professions are desperately stretched too.

Sorry but if the TAs are still expected to come in when school opens and leave when it finishes why should they then provide what would realistically be free hours? Unless they are being paid? And where is the budget coming from?

Hmmm, "all sorts of reasons" this looks suspiciously like grasping at excuses to me.

Surely as part of the pre you prepare for getting it quickly, slowly and in between - not really that difficult to the stuff about adapting for varying abilities and learning styles within the class.

There can't be that many examples of amazing scientific discoveries or classes requiring a TA who is sick to need an extra 1/2 day of working every week on top of the additional 8 weeks paid time that teachers get?

I'd vote for reducing teachers 13 weeks of holidays so they can spend more time pre and post term dates doing prep and marking.

My son is year 4, he is way ahead of his peers (not gifted, just advanced.. sure they’ll all even out) my point is, he has never had any extra attention that requires his teachers to spend more of their planning time on him. We’re fine with that (apart from the fact that he does get bored but hey ho) but at no point has he taken up extra teacher time because of it. When he was in year 2, he was listened to read perhaps once a fortnight at the most, so I could argue that he was taking up less teacher/TA time because they told us at parents evening that they could leave him to get on with his work on his own.

re report writing.. when do they EVER take an hour per child as a PP has mentioned? Everyone (well, most people) know that they are pretty much cut and paste jobs. Teachers I know say they can do them with their eyes closed. This all may be primary level but I see no teachers spending any more than they’re 8.45 - 3.15 hours working.

@Slofter I think you mean Curriculum for Excrement? 😆😆😆

Yep. Standard day.

That was in reply to the poster who said we finish early not because I say we are doing super long days.

We do have those longer days when it is parents evening and report writing and concerts and the 24-7 for residentials.

I think it's more sad that your industry penalises part time workers.

You do realise that teachers don't actually get paid for the summer holidays? They get paid but it's term time money split over the whole year.

And no, I'm not a teacher.

I’m a TA and I also need to plan! No one’s planning my interventions for me unfortunately. I am extremely lucky to get PPA time.

Clearly one of those who think teachers only work until 3.30 or whatever and it's not convenient for their free child minding expectation. I was actually told this by a Vicar but when I commented on his 1 hour on a Sunday and a few hatch, match and dispatch gigs he was apoplectic!

My Dd teaches in Fife and her class is in 9-3pm. Where as our school is in 8.50-3.15pm. School finishes 12.25 on a Friday and shorter days for P1/2

It is sad, but not the poster’s fault. It’s just the way it is in certain industries, just like it’s just the way it is in teaching that they’re expected to work in the evenings and holidays. All industries have their challenges.

Different jobs get different benefits, they can't all be the same. Teachers can't WFH for example but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be able to do it if it works for their jobs.

Where is the money coming from to pay them for the holidays they will lose?

In all fairness I think it’s easy to assume that the few hours after work could be used for planning - I , myself , thought the same when I was training . I thought everything would be able to be done within the week because I thought - “ most jobs are until 5 / 6 so working until then isn’t an obscene request and then you have the weekends and all those holidays to yourself ! “

But , unless you are in it , you really don’t realise the outrageous workload . From the outside too it looks like teachers get so much holiday compared to anyone else - but , realistically the fact is teachers DONT get paid for all those holidays . We get paid for our term time hours , we get paid for say 37hrs like everyone does , but our salary is spread across the 12 months so that we do get a payment each month . When you think that a days teaching is 6 hours that’s 30 hours . So that gives us another 7 hours we’re paid for ( say 10 if we base it on 40 ) so if we work until 5 each day then that’s all we are paid for . We cannot get everything done in that time . I don’t know any teacher that doesn’t work on weekends or part of the holidays ( I mean reports for a start ! ) . I’m a supply teacher , on long term . I get paid for a day ( 9-5 … but I’m in at 8 latest every day and I leave around 5 ) so I’m already doing an hour over what I’m paid , plus I’m doing reports so I’ll be doing them in my own time … I’m not planning and I work over that so with planning you can see how much teachers do work

Most jobs don't do 4 weeks. Legally the minimum for paid holidays is 5.6 weeks per year in the UK.

Not a problem - if they’re paid for it . Teachers aren’t paid for the holidays they have off .

So taking into account the pro rata, the average teacher earns an equivalent yearly salary of £50,000. I don’t know anyone earning that much who isn’t expected to work the hours needed to get the job done.

How do you know that no extra planning time is taken for him ? Because most schools differentiate the lessons ( more challenging work for those more able , more scaffolded for those that aren’t ) . When I was working permanently in a school I had to make all of my PowerPoints suitable for all levels of learners , different work for all levels and different marking for all levels .

If you aren’t seeing the teachers working more , it doesn’t mean they aren’t . 845 - 315 is teaching only so when do you think they are marking , logging data , assessing, doing training , planning etc ? They can’t do it during lessons !

If teachers aren’t paid for 13 weeks of the year ( or even 9 if you take a usual allowance into account) then they do earn ALOT of money compared to others in the public sector ( based on a day rate or hourly rate) Not to mention the pension is awesome.

in fact I have several friends who went back from mat leave one week at the end of July so they got paid over the summer holidays. So in essence …

im not saying it’s an easy job, im sure it’s not. But I feel like there is an almost cult like culture if the ‘teachers are so hard done by’ camp’ when in reality , yeah it’s tough. But there are benefits and many many people work the same hours ALL YEAR ROUND. For less money. ( think social workers for example)

What average teacher earns £50,000??????

I’m not saying the teachers should get the Friday off , I’m saying so it can be used for planning instead of that planning time being during the week . The teachers would still be working