Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

You’re thinking of Murphy’s Law.

Muprhy’s Law is quite different. It’s why I never correct grammar or spelling on social media, as it’s almost inevitable.

I think most sensible (and non goady!) people are aware that teachers don’t only work 9-3 and that they take work home with them. But so do many, many other professions.

That's just me. Maybe other teachers would use the time to feed hungry rescue animals or climb Everest. The point is the time would be their own to do as they pleased, and that would be welcome

@Apolloneuro

I don't think they work 9-3. But let's say they did 7:30-6pm.

I don't think that is terrible. It's comparable to lots of jobs mentioned here.

And re holidays. Most jobs do 4 weeks. Do you all agree that teachers have significantly more days where they don't even lift a pen or open a laptop? They don't need to be at desk at a certain time etc?

Come on...be honest. Out of those 6 weeks in summer. How many full days are spent in school/working?

My sister usually goes in a few days out of those 6 weeks. She might do a few hours here and there for planning. But the rest... is abroad, walking dogs, with her own kids etc.

She actually complains as she said it's a bit dull because all her friends are working so they can't have fun with her.

Do we? That’s good to know. I’ll start leaving after the bell and not have any books marked or lessons planned for the following day. What a relief, wish someone had told me this 11 years ago.

I am at school from 8am - 5/6pm every day. I never do any extra work at home. Some people prefer to leave at 4pm and wfh in the evenings. I don’t know what other jobs are like but I don’t think those hours are particularly short. I did do an admin job before and that was 9-5, so a slightly shorter day.

We have a big private school down the road. They have most of Wednesdays ‘off’. They have to choose an extra curricular programme. Sports, Arts or Music and do all school events that afternoon.

Might be better than a Friday?

You don’t think all professions would welcome a Friday afternoon to do as they pleased, for the same pay?

My BiL was privately educated and seemed to spend a lot more time off school than in it compared to the state kids I taught.

Wow. I’m not a teacher but that is a ridiculous assumption. When do you think teachers do marking, admin, training?

I don’t know what other jobs are like but I don’t think those hours are particularly short. I did do an admin job before and that was 9-5, so a slightly shorter day.

An admin job won't be a professional role. If you're in a professional job, you're not paid by the hour, you're paid up get the work done and 8-5/6 certainly isn't a long day in many industries.

Yeah sure, nice one. And who should look after the kids on a. Friday then? The flower fairies?

An extra curricular afternoon on Fridays - sports, arts and music - would be ideal, if only that could be possible (but there’s no money for it, I know).

My post referred to the spaces between punctuation and words. I’m not a teacher and don’t claim to be an expert at English, but when I see a recurring error that a teacher is oblivious to then I’ll correct it. I don’t want them to teach children wrong or not correct children who are making this error. I wasn’t disrespectful in my post.

I did cover work at a school (PRU) that finished early on a Friday.

It worked incredibly well.

It’s very challenging to have decent PPA time, especially if you work in a PRU or SEND type setting as often all staff are needed.
I also worked in mainstream education where the PPA was taken or disturbed or finding a free computer etc was difficult.

Having an afternoon with no students makes it so much easier to just plan and mark without distractions.

Either that or have inset days that can be used to actually plan instead of spending the entire day training.

I would go in at least 1 day during the holidays because it’s so much easier when there’s a chunk of time instead of an hour here and there.

Finishing early or having additional inset days in mainstream education would be more difficult though.
Unless they were kept in school and taken care of by support staff or certain subject teachers like PE and then have no PE on a different day, so those teachers can do their PPA as a chunk on a different day.

This would be absolutely lovely and so beneficial for the pupils and staff too.

My kids primary did this - it was great! I've just looked on their website to see if they still do it, and they finish at 2pm on Fridays now.

It worked well for us - I'm self-employed and my work is very flexible, and DH has worked condensed hours with Fridays off since kids were born, so it just meant our weekend started early. The teaching staff were generally really enthusiastic about it too (though doing your planning on a Friday afternoon doesn't sound like the dream to me!).

Not all schools in Scotland close early on Fridays, more common on east coast. Glasgow, East Ren, Ayrshire, South Lanarkshire certainly don't. Our high schools have slightly earlier finish on weds & Fri which works OK.

So how many hours a week do teachers work in total?

Conversely, the only teacher who was part time at my kids school was a man who dropped one day a week after maternity leave for childcare. All the women, which includes the entire SLT are full time.

Sitting on the fence, I'm school adjacent and if they did close early on a Friday, I'd be super happy, but I think other staff might not be so pleased.
Thinking cleaners, school dinner staff, and like. They could lose a lot of hours and they are all on min wage.

Why not do all the planning during some of the 13 weeks of holiday that teachers get? Most non-school workers get 5 weeks and I think the statutory minimum is 4 weeks, so there must be space within all that additional time off to do the planning?

Yeah this is what the thread is about - not comparing jobs! Most people work hard - whether the pay and conditions shows it or not!

As a teacher, it’s more about management and ensuring you’re given PPA time which isn’t removed.
Also I think we as teachers need to listen to the unions when they say you shouldn’t be subject leaders/taking on extra paperwork for SLT.
This is what is taking away from teaching the class and having the headspace to do a good job.
That and SLT supporting and being the top rung for behaviour issues!

I don’t want to play hard work ‘one up man ship’, but to answer your questions:

When I taught full time, I was in school most days from 8am - 7:30pm.

I worked one whole day of each weekend, without fail.

The whole of the Spring half term was spent on reports - 30 children with at least one hour on each report.

At least one day on the other half terms were spent working, usually two.

In the summer I gave myself August off.
The other two weeks would be spent in either arranging classrooms (I seemed to move most years and had to move all my stuff myself), or planning.

To be fair, I worked harder than some other teachers. I’m retired now, but if I had my time again, I’d do it differently. I was (sorry for the brag) an outstanding teacher and achieved outstanding results. Now, I think it’s actually more amazing to be a good teacher and not burn out after ten years and quit.

Everyone in my family works hard. My daughter does, and earns £150,000+ a year, in the financial industry. Another daughter does and earns £30,000 a year, in a creative industry.

Loads of people work hard.

Full time I’d say 50-60