To be so upset by DCs lack of motivation at school ..

[MummyRuns]

Just that. Probably been done to death. Grew up with very little money and worked hard at school to get a professional qualification and a good job - first generation in family to go to uni and my DC have quite an easy life and very little drive or motivation… they are still young (Y4 and Y5) but I can’t see it changing. Coasting happily at school, minimum effort with homework, ‘playing’ musical instruments but never practising… DC said today there was a debate at school at to whether their group was the middle or bottom maths set. Not remotely bothered! I would not mind at all if this was following any level of effort but it’s this work shy attitude. This was after a school drop off trying to get one to practice times tables and being shouted at for being so horrible for turning off Spotify (‘I hate you mummy!’)

We have had multiple ‘chats’ (ie lectures from me) about the importance of hard work, applying themselves etc. but I work full time and can’t stand over them all day yelling / cajoling. No idea how people get children motivated to work towards 11+. I am clearly doing something very wrong.

They are junior school age. They won't care about grades along with 95% of other kids that age

Well maybe the question is - in this uber competitive (ie UK) education system, how do people motivate their junior school aged kids to work hard and pass exams like 11+? They’re not all unmotivated.

That magic fairy dust isn’t blowing anywhere near my kids…

Why do they have to study for the 11+? They’ll still get a school place if they fail and they may do better in a less academically-focused school if they’re not naturally inclined that way.

My parents motivated us with rewards for good grades and achievements. Considering the vast majority of adults are motivated to do well at work by being rewarded with money or workplace benefits or professional recognition rather than simply by a sense of joy in working hard, I don’t think it’s that much of a wild card.

Primary school should be for having fun, building social skills and a foundation for learning. Why are yr4 and 5 kids being put into sets??

The real learning starts at secondary school, and even then kids can get away without taking it too seriously until yr9/10.

They are v young - I thought you were going to say mid teens!

I do know kids who have passed the 11 plus and willingly worked hard for it - but others like my dd who it wouldn’t suit. What’s the alternative - surely not all kids have to do it in your area?

of course kids do change quickly and it could be your dc are more focused by the time the exam comes.

I saved the pushing/encouragement for GCSEs and A levels. It paid off.

Let them be children not many stick to music .

Not every kid is academic though so forcing them to study won't help and prob will push them the other way. Maybe if you can find something they are particularly interested in you could encourage extra learning by tailoring to their interests or some people bribe their children with some sort of reward for committing to studying and passing 11+

I've got 3, the oldest passed 11+ with ease, naturally gifted no tutoring etc but now is rebellious and reluctant to do any revision! The middle one was a Covid kid having had very poor school support during the pandemic no online learning provided and also not a naturally academic child, despite me trying to push him to study practice 11+ papers, he missed the grammar place by 3 marks so he's at a comp and yes basically coasting but he's doing well among his peers. Youngest so far seems bright and eager to learn so think she will not need much pushing academically so they are all different despite having the same parents and same parenting techniques etc!

I'm sorry but you need to calm down. You are going to put your dc off education. You do realise they aren't listening to you?

Very, very few children that age are intrinsically motivated to work hard for the 11 plus/any exam. They are either bright kids who enjoy school work or they're being bribed/forced into it by their parents.

Hard work and motivation is important, but this doesn't have to be at school. Are they lacking across the board or do they have passion in other areas?

If they're lacking motivation/hard work generally I would consider whether you bubble wrap/baby them. Do you let them learn from their own mistakes? Clean up their own mess? Deal with the fallout of their own actions?

This sounds way too much at this age. I'd be happy - at this stage - that they're not causing trouble, being disruptive, are engaging with staff, are socialising well, are happily going into school!

I'd start thinking about all this stuff more at secondary school.

If you're eager for them to take the 11plus just bribe them and get a tutor. Worry about it year 8 secondary onwards.

I am clearly doing something very wrong.

No you are not. They are very young and too emotionally immature to see the connection between applying themselves and good things happening. They are not at GCSE level yet! Literally you don’t need to worry for years. As long as their behavior is good, they are making friends and doing activities rather than gaming, they will be ok.

I think part of it is personality and peer group (hard to bother working if everyone else is coasting) but part is the expectations that are set by you.

Eg. music - is your expectation that they must practise every day? Have you taught them how to practise (not just play through the pieces)? At this age you probably still need to spell out exactly what to do (and how many times) or ideally to sit in with them now and then to support them doing it properly until they are in the right routine.

Times tables - again, is it an expectation they should do a certain amount each day or get to a certain level of fluency? Is there a reward chart to incentivise them to put in the effort little and often?

I saw the foundation paper for maths gcse the other day. There was nothing on there that isn't taught in primary school. Have a look at some SATs papers. I think you'd be surprised at what 10/11 year olds are expected to know. They are definitely doing real learning and not just building foundations.

The gap between the most able and least able is huge by Yr 4. IME the children who struggled were much more confident and learned much better in a class full of children at a similar level with work pitched at a level they could understand.

My kids were all like this in primary.

You either tiger parent/hot house them from infancy & make them compliant, or you hope they get there on their own anyway. I don't have it in me to produce compliant kids - mine are either motivated or they're not and no amount of nagging works if they're not bothered.

We have strict routines around homework (given by school + extra maths practice and music practice) that have been in place since y1. I will keep it going through the summer so that they keep the routine of doing a bit of work (30mins or less) at least 5 days a week.

sometimes they complain and sometimes they try to negotiate, but 9 times out of 10 they get on with it and do it with minimal prompting. Doing the work is the gateway to something they want - during school it is a bit of screen time or pudding, during holidays they do it after breakfast and we don’t leave the house until it is done.

the focus is always on the process, extra praise for doing without prompting or working ahead, as well as perseverance when it is difficult - NOT on the results.

I thought you would be writing about 15/16 year olds.

Your children are very young. They are still very psychologically and emotionally immature. You're expecting them the have the drive and discipline that most people struggle with at times even in adulthood.

My experience is that children have to have ownership of their own ambition and work. Then they will drive it forward.

For my kids once they were older (I mean at least year 7 and up) they started to grasp that doing well at school gives you choices. Started to think about what sort of life they might aspire to - and what efforts might be needed to achieve that.

With music practice with young kids you do have to do it with them until they internalise it and are good enough that they can do it more independently.

I would really back off, you are really overestimating the sophistication of your kids.

Thanks all. No they are not motivated in other areas. Quite blasé about sports and any other areas where they could achieve / demonstrate commitment and effort.

I do recognise that they need bribes and rewards. My youngest DC is being bribed to learn the times tables - and it’s still taking forever - bribe not yet collected as still on 3x! I can’t even fathom bribing to get through the 11+ given the size of the bribes required to motivate them in the short term.

It’s very competitive where we live and the doors are closing on options. I think it’s too late to wait until they (hopefully) wake up in secondary school.

I find it really hard to watch as I was always one of the poorest kids in the class and I know how important hard work is and what an impact it has on your future security etc.

My parents were very academic, I was not motivated at all by their interest in my academic achievements or indeed in their academic track record/wordly success. What I liked doing was things I could SEE they enjoyed or shared with me. I couldn't SEE their hard work, except that it made less time for me. Time spent playing games, chatting to me, watching TV with them sharing ideas, outdoors, books together was ultimately more motivating than any people talk.
I did well in primary but stalled at A level. I don't think it's about parental ambition or motivation, it's how parents make you feel about your OWN goals that matters. You can't tell someone what they should be doing but you can help them discover that they LIKE doing it.
Education is "EDUCARE" to draw out - in Latin.

DS is still only in primary school, too, but I do see with friends who grew up very poor like me, and have older teenagers, that they’re frequently very frustrated their kids don’t have the same drive we did at that age. Because they don’t have to, and in many ways that’s a good thing. We worked like dogs because we looked at our parents’ lives and didn’t want them, and knew it was the only way out of fairly extreme poverty.

In many ways, I’m pleased DS will never know that, because he’s grown up in a house where you can’t tell how close to payday it is because of the dwindling food, or you have known since the age of four never to ask for anything, because the money just isn’t there.

The latest recommendation is AGAINST bribes and rewards, as demotivating.

Habits instead are helpful, and parental interest but better still is for child to get pleasure and satisfaction from the thing itself. Not praise not presents not star charts but genuinely being satisfied with their own efforts. Have you never had that satisfaction yourself which isn't dependent on external praise? Tables are actually quite interesting once you see how they make maths easier and maths is a series of puzzles to solve, that's fun/engaging for a child.

Conditional parenting is a very slippery slope.

One of the other things I've learnt is that clever successful people are often quite intrinsically lazy. They make an effort to find shortcuts to achieve the same result. They literally invent wheels. I'm sure the people who didn't have carts worked a lot harder than the people who worked out about wheels.
People tend to work hard when they like doing things but working hard is not an end in itself. It's a servant not master.
" Consider the lilies of the field they toil not, neither do they spin. "And all that .

No they are not motivated in other areas. Quite blasé about sports and any other areas where they could achieve / demonstrate commitment and effort.

They’re CHILDREN ffs. This is so sad to read.

Tell me an option the is genuinely unachievable if the don’t pass the 11+?

The successful people I know use shortcuts, are good at finding efficiencies, but also work pretty damn hard.

I also know lots of not so successful people who generate endless ‘get rich quick’ schemes but never have the perseverance to see anything through.

and more commonly, I know lots of people of middling success who work hard and have nice if unexceptional lives.

hard work on its own doesn’t guarantee success, but it is a necessary ingredient if you cannot rely on nepotism.