To be so upset by DCs lack of motivation at school ..

[MummyRuns]

Just that. Probably been done to death. Grew up with very little money and worked hard at school to get a professional qualification and a good job - first generation in family to go to uni and my DC have quite an easy life and very little drive or motivation… they are still young (Y4 and Y5) but I can’t see it changing. Coasting happily at school, minimum effort with homework, ‘playing’ musical instruments but never practising… DC said today there was a debate at school at to whether their group was the middle or bottom maths set. Not remotely bothered! I would not mind at all if this was following any level of effort but it’s this work shy attitude. This was after a school drop off trying to get one to practice times tables and being shouted at for being so horrible for turning off Spotify (‘I hate you mummy!’)

We have had multiple ‘chats’ (ie lectures from me) about the importance of hard work, applying themselves etc. but I work full time and can’t stand over them all day yelling / cajoling. No idea how people get children motivated to work towards 11+. I am clearly doing something very wrong.

I know they’re children but it was in response to a question. As an example, one did gymnastics for two years and then got demotivated as they couldn’t do a cartwheel. All the other kids in the class could at this stage - some picked it up really quickly but others had to practice for hours (and hours) over an entire summer in the garden. My DC tried half heartedly a few times. So although my DC liked gymnastics they weren’t motivated enough to put in the effort. Maybe kids today are just different. I was probably raised by a tiger mom in hindsight so by comparison I feel like I’m failing them.

We had a chat to day and I told them to ‘find your thing’ whatever it is and I will help you do well, get classes etc. (I don’t think they will come back to me..!)

OP, I just couldn't be that bothered in school, same at college. All my reports talk of how much potential I had. I lost a parent and remaining parent just wasn't interested so I could kind of do what I wanted. I scraped enough just to get into university and got a good degree with a very good grade. I somehow blagged my way into various really good jobs with good opportunity and really applied myself. They'll do just fine I'm sure.

I wonder how much pressure of judgement or keeping up with the Jones' plays into it. You sound disproportionately anxious about it. It's better than being completely disengaged but I imagine they will develop the skills to be more self motivated with age.

I think we are disagreeing about what "work" actually is. There's success, there's riches, there is status.
And there is satisfaction in what you do and how you live. And dissatisfaction and unhappiness.
Mostly correlated with motivation and a sense of purpose.
But that isn't the same as learning your tables because you "have to". Or you will fail miserably.
Tables are like the washing up. Entirely satisfying once you see the point.

Sounds like you need to work through your own childhood issues.

You’re telling an 8yo to go and “find their thing” with the oh-so-enjoyable threat that you’re then going to helicopter parent them into excelling in it? Yeah… I wouldn’t come back to you with anything either!

Most kids their age will do the minimum expected, with flashes of interest occasionally leading to extra effort.

Don’t get into bribing them. Have a minimum standard that you expect that covers the basics - e.g. homework must be completed. Be interested and enthusiastic about their activities - but not over bearing. Give them opportunities to try new things - like sports clubs - without knowing that it’s yet another thing that mummy expects them to come out top in.

The 11+ really isn’t the be all and end all.

“We had a chat to day and I told them to ‘find your thing’ whatever it is and I will help you do well, get classes etc. (I don’t think they will come back to me..!)”

This is what I mean in my post above. Why can’t they just enjoy something without doing well, without having extra classes in it…? Maybe they’d have just enjoyed gymnastics if it wasn’t clear to them that you thought they were a failure because they hadn’t spent the summer practising cartwheels? It’s OK to do things for fun.

@MummyRuns some kids just want to participate. Make friends. Have fun. They aren't actually that bothered about goals such as cartwheels. That's equally valid as the kids desperately focus on getting into elite squads. (Parents aside).

My two boys aged 8 and 10 are the same. Capable but so bloody lazy. We tried tutoring for the 11+ but he moaned every week so we stopped. Tutor said he was capable in passing if he did what he was told. I thought there's no point because even if he did pass and get into grammar, he wouldn't do the homework.
I'd have killed for that opportunity at his age. Both are very immature so I don't know of that's got anything to do with it
They want to be youtubers and keep going on about 'the beast' who dropped out of school and made millions.! Doesnt help really but I feel your pain.

They've tried so many different activities but unless it's gaming, they're not interested. I'm running out of ideas

DD used to be like that. At 17 she’s gone completely the other way and is completely consumed by school work and that’s hard too.

You want the best for your children and that’s okay. The 11+ is such a tough thing as it segregates children so young and I feel for you with that. We don’t live in an 11+ area and I was relieved about that at the time. I just wish there was a road map that helped us navigate happy mediumness as I’ve never found it.

I am on your same boat with my two DCs, OP, just a little further along.

I have wondered whether there are contextual factors which are limiting their motivation and suspect two:

1. DH and I work our socks off but are in demanding careers that pay relatively modestly. I wonder whether they see the long hours and think (consciously or unconsciously) that it's not really worth it. Quite a few of their friends have wealthy and well-connected parents who go on frequent fancy holidays, have lots of home help, eat out/get takeaways several times a week, etc. I'm sure many of them have worked very hard to get where they are now (even if some have simply been 'luckier' or made 'savvier' career choices) but my DC do not quite see that yet (even if we tell them). They have home evidence that very hard work does not guarantee a high quality of life and I suppose that is demotivating.

2. My eldest also has some friends whose parents put tremendous pressure on them: they need to get all A*, achieve diplomas, prizes, grades, etc. Some of these kids are not particularly happy and this may be taking the shine of 'success' (and thus any motivation to do better).

My eldest cruised through school - never had to apply himself. He crashed and burned in the seventh form when natural talent wasn't enough. His first year at university was a disaster. In another year though he will qualify as a doctor after working like a dog to get into medicine as a post grad. So people can turn themselves around. I think it helps if they have career goal though I became a lawyer sort of by accident when somebody from the university came and gave a talk at our school. But I was a child of immigrants and there was no question that I had to do well at school.

Whatever happens, it’s unlikely to be because of you so don’t blame yourself. One of mine is likely to leave with no GCSEs despite arriving at secondary with an adult comprehension age. The other is attempting to be top in everything, and mostly succeeding. I still suspect it’s the former who’s going to make the most money, he is v entrepreneurial 🤷‍♀️

Chats don't work,

Either your kid has drive and motivation or you do the tiger mum thing.

If you haven't got the time or the inclination to do the tiger mum thing and your child doesn't have drive then they do how they do.

I’ve got a year 5 boy like that too, and also get frustrated. I hate to say it, but I think it’s because his life is so easy and comfortable and also because of the distractions of gaming, YouTube etc. I used to love learning but that’s about all there was to do - I lived with my disabled single mum, we didn’t have much money, and after chores and tv (which was only on for a bit after school) I had to entertain myself. I always tried desperately hard to get good marks and would totally have swotted for the 11+ if my county had done it. But saying all that, I suspect that my laid back ds is going to get further in life than me because he’s confident, he doesn’t stress, and he’s very sociable and gets on with everyone. Those things are valuable too.

I think the 11 plus should be scrapped. Most kids who pass are heavily tutored to do so. I think if your child is not especially academic it will be too much of an uphill struggle unless you have the cash and ability to push weekly tutoring and extra homework.

I think supporting good behaviour, a positive attitude to homework and high expectations is more important. I would also really reward effort. I am a teacher and I love hearing parents praise effort. At a parents evening I told a parent that their child always listened carefully and did their best on every piece of work. The dad turned to his son and said ' that's brilliant. I am so proud of you'. They also helped him with his homework by taking an interest. The child would sit at the table while parents were around and they checked in regularly with him.

It does read like you’re putting too much pressure on them. Giving up on gymnastics because they couldn’t do a cartwheel suggests that they’ve been expected so much to be the best or top of everything that anything less is considered a ‘failure’ and not worth doing. That’s the view they’ve learned, not ‘try your best and I’ll be proud of the results you bring from that’.

Are the extra curricular activities ones they’ve chosen to do themselves or what you’ve decided looks good to outside eyes? My own mum was determined to throw me into every artsy activity going and I despised it. She had aspirations for dance and theatrics and convinced herself her children wanted it as well. When I wanted to quit a few years in she also considered me lazy and unmotivated. Perhaps I was but I was so bored of chasing her passions.

As for the 11+, are your children actually academically capable enough? If they need cajoling to the point of causing everyone stress perhaps it’s another thing that you need to validate you rather than what’s best for your children.

Speaking as a therapist, you need to knock this hysteria off. The end result of these situations can be very ugly. The more hysterical and pushy you get about this the more they will withdraw from even trying. It wont be rebellion either, it'll be the result of low self esteem from being passively told they arent good enough. I'm not remotely suprised they arent motivated based on what you've said. I wouldnt be in their shoes.

High achieving, happy, productive people come from calm, secure environments where they are accepted and supported to achieve. People who feel good about themselves want to do well for themselves. Pushing might get the certificates (for some) but they are very rarely healthy, happy people which I hope you agree is far more important.

Yabu

They're 8-10 years old . Let them be kids

Gymnastics is a bit niche I think. You are either a born gymnast all flexible and able to do cartwheels or you're not.

There's still plenty of time to find what there thing is. If gymnastics isn't. Same with musical instruments you might play the piano but if you're heart isn't in it and you're more of a guitarist. Then that's fine

Maybe they don't want to find their thing. Maybe they are happy doing what they do. You can't make your children what YOU want them to be. They will be themselves no matter how hard you push.

You need to provide them with rewards for completing work. Give them rewards to motivate them (extra screen time, pizza for dinner, they get to choose which movie to watch etc), that should hopefully encourage them to associate learning with fun things and from there they will get into the habit of studying and wanting to do well, so by the time they’re in secondary they won’t need constant rewards to get them to care and do their schoolwork.

I understand OP. And I think with the gymnastics example the hard thing is that they probably did like it, would like to have learnt to cartwheel/progress and just couldn’t sustain the required effort, which is slightly different to you wanting them to cartwheel/progress. The sustained effort (towards whatever) is a life skill and that’s the thing you’re bemoaning, not any particular activity.

Sometimes that tenacity does kick in- and I think ultimately there ends up being something that they want enough- a car, to be able to drive, a trip, whatever. I know that’s down the line for you, but in case it helps to think a little longer term.

That just teaches them that you only do boring learning things because someone is going to bribe you. And the bribes are easy when it’s just choosing a film or getting pizza. Fast forward that to a 16yo doing GCSEs with a part time job who has Netflix and JustEat on their phone… what are you bribing them with then?

Better to develop the habit either by engaging them to enjoy the study (a big ask, but for some kids in some subjects it’s possible) or by setting it as an expectation from a very young age: homework is just something that is done, end of, no pizza bribes involved.