To think that the difference between Leave entitlements for teachers in the UK and Ireland is crazy

[Positivenancy]

Off the back of threads I’ve been reading today in regards to teachers in the UK being able to take time off for a weddings and other reasons it made me realise that teachers in Ireland have much more of an allowance to take time off for these situations. For example.

• Three force majeure days per 12 months
• Illness, I’ve up to 5 days for immediate family members and three days for near Family
• Bereavement leave from one to 20 days depending on the relation of the person who is deceased.
• Each teacher gets a weeks worth of paid leave when they get married
• A days leave to attend the wedding of immediate family excluding cousins however you can use an EPV day for this.
• EPV days are extra personal vacation days and they get five of these per school year. They must do courses in order to earn these days.
• They got a days leave for graduations of immediate family members.
• They get five days paid study/exam leave.
• One day leave for attending court for separation or divorce proceedings.
• Paid leave for jury service

I’m sure there’s more leaves that I don’t know about, but it just seems that they’re a lot more amenable here.

I’m not a teacher, so this is not me posting in any way shape or form,this is me merely pointing out that I feel teachers in the UK got a hard deal and perhaps they could use this to fight more for what they are entitled to. It’s a thankless job most of the time and I don’t think it would be too much to ground people leave for important days moments in their lives and their families lives around them.

Not all schools are like the one in the wedding post though. It depends on the MAT or LEA

I worked full time for 10 years as a Primary School teacher before children. I'm now part time. I missed many funerals, weddings and other important events when full time. Now that I'm part time I have the flexibility to swap days around in such circumstances. One of the reasons I will (hopefully!) never go back full time is the lack of flexibility.

Im not sure there’s much sympathy out there for leave for teachers in term time.

If they are so desperate I’m sure an arrangement for given up all their current leave in exchange for 28 days annual leave including the stat days can be suggested.
They can provide catch up/extra lessons or childcare in the previous holidays.

Im sure all teachers would jump at this arrangement and therefore allow them to attend a term time wedding……

Never heard of these entitlements. Work in secondary school in England. Was asked by niece if i could attend her graduation with her mom. Was like i was asking for the crown jewels. I don't have any dependents, so will never need time off for a sick child etc. People having to lie to attend major events. People needing emergency cover for having no hot water etc-frowned upon. Now are often told to.sort our own cover

Being a teacher should not mean u miss out on ur child' s achievements

Do you want some ketchup for that chip on your shoulder?

Amazingly, out of the 100,000's teachers that have left in recent years, none of them miss the holidays because they are less stressed and have actual weekends and evenings to relax!

I don't think the tax payer would be happy with that arrangement though as it would mean huge increases in taxes to pay for the extra 8 weeks a year a teacher would need to paid for.

YANBU. I'm not a teacher either, but I'm constantly bewildered at the seemingly terrible working conditions of teachers in the UK (GB? NI doesn't seem too bad) compared to Ireland.

Teachers in Ireland don't work anywhere near the hours of teachers in the UK, seemingly without any negative impact on the education system. As a parent I don't understand it at all, I want my children taught by happy, rested, well paid teachers with job satisfaction.

My DC2 had a tutor for a subject she was struggling with. The tutor was a teacher in her late 20s working in Scotland.
She desperately wanted to go back to Ireland but she told me many teachers in Ireland stay in a job for life so was difficult for her to get a job. Probably true if they get those sort of terms and conditions

And a corresponding pay rise to cover the extra days they will be working?

A colleague of mine was not allowed time off for their own graduation - as it was only their PGCE.

Another colleague was asked to come in work on the morning of their gran's funeral as it was not until
2 ( and an hour's drive away).

It used to be that if you could arrange a colleague to cover you, you could go and repay the favour at a later day - this seems less and less now.

None of them? Not a single one? You must have forgotten to ask my nieces dh 😂

That is just awful!! My dc’s teachers are always helping each other out. They never miss their own dc’s shows and sports days etc. Also their school finishes at 2:20 and the school is closed and empty by 3:15. They have lives too!

I'm not sure what your AIBU is, OP? I'm not a teacher, but have had a child in primary school in the UK and Ireland and think being a teacher (at least in primaries) is certainly a nicer, less stressful job than it is in the UK. I know less about secondaries, as DS isn't quite there yet, but the summer holiday is three months.

I wasn't actually aware of those specific leave provisions, but I think part of it is that Irish people are in general, less anxious about their children's education than UK parents -- there's no equivalent of OFSTED reports, there's only a tiny private school sector, and most people are far more likely to send their children to the geographically closest school, with the idea that there's not in fact a whole lot of difference in the teaching.

Having said that, there's still a recruitment and retention problem here...

Quite a few would when you consider the commensurate pay rise that would come with so many extra working days...

Seriously? You’re that bitter? Train as a teacher if it’s that good, eh?

I would suspect because no-one has any availability to actually cover anymore because any frees are taken up with absence cover or they wouldn't have enough time to get their own work done if the covered.

I used to happily squeeze 2 classes in my classroom for an afternoon occasionally to help out, but the decline in behaviour and lack of TAs would make that impossible now.

I suppose my AIBU is that surely there has to be a middle ground for teachers in uk (or maybe just England!) surely something can be improved.

I do think Irish parents see their dcs education in a different light. I think secondary is seen more seriously than primary. They have an ofsted equivalent but it’s not the same really. They are inspected but under different reasoning.

I’m a HLTA and had 3 paid days for my mum’s death! I took a week but the rest was unpaid.

That's horrendous.

I think the problem with arranging cover is most people are right up to timetable now, and unless someone's got a big chunk of gained time they simply don't have the time.

I also know schools who don't allow these swaps because they want the staff member available for emergency cover- at a previous school when I was union rep I arranged a cover swap so I could attend an important meeting with the MAT CEO- the assistant head in charge of cover tried to tell me this wasn't allowed as the other staff member might be needed for emergency cover. We did eventually get it all straightened out, but some schools make this sort of thing hugely difficult.

It really is such a shame because schools buy a lot of good will IME by offering a small amount of flexibility around these sorts of things, but especially some MATs seem to solely want to take until staff are only willing to do the bare minimum.

A teacher asked if she could have a Friday off for her son’s wedding and was declined .

Funnily enough Irish classrooms also don’t have TA’s. They have SNA’s which are assigned to one particular child for their needs only. They are not there to teach, just to aid and assist the child.

Most TAs in U.K. are 1:1 too.

In Ireland when a teach let takes leave that doesn’t get a supply cover the children of that class are given work to do, they are split into groups of 5 or 6 and sent to different classroom for the day. They sit and do their work.

@greengreyblue interesting thank you for that clarification l. I was always under the impression they were there for the whole class.