make up is misogynistic oppression

[sixtyandsomething]

I hate make up, because of the devastating damage it does to the lives of women and girls

Obviously I don't wear any, so it doesn't damage my life.

But I am a teacher, and see its devastating impact on the lives of literally thousands of girls

It is ridiculous to think it makes women look "beautiful". Women without make up are beautiful. Women with make up look like they have a load of chemical crap smeared on their face to cover up their natural features. Which is what they do.

Thinking this looks "better" than a face without make up is just misogynistic programming and conditioning.

Girls are literally taught and programmed and schooled and conditioned to believe they can't go out without their faces covered. I speak to girls who tell me they will kill themselves if they have to take it off. They are surrounded by media images of women smeared in the crap, and are conditioned to think this is what a normal female face looks like.

It is expensive, time consuming and bad for your skin, but worst of all it is oppressive.

Just look at this picture and compare the natural look of the men, who just have the minimum make up required for the lighting, and the massively overexaggerated, false, completely covered up look of the women, who apparently need to cover their lips with an unnatural colour, paint extra circles around their eyes, change their eyelashes and eyebrows, and cake all the skin on their face in gunk in order to be fit to be seen.

And if you look at this picture and think "what is she on about - those women just look normal" then PLEASE stop for a moment and ask yourself WHY you think gunk-smeared to the point that no natural skin can be seen is "normal" for a woman!

I am not expecting much agreement, as I think so many women are so tightly in the grip of the (mostly male run) cosmetics industry, that they can't even see how brainwashed they are

But please think twice before passing this oppression on to your daughters.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the next generation of female BBC news readers grow up in a society where they feel free to show their actual natural faces in public.

I often wonder that myself 🤭

Then you are more conditioned than you think.

So year in year out on a desert island you’d continue to put make up on?

Why? Who for?

My exH deemed my expenses for make up and skin products as essentials after checking my face. I get your point but choosing those photos isn't helping your argument.

Why does it bother you so much and make you so angry that some women like to wear make up - for THEMSELVES?

You - and the OP - are irrationally angry about something that has nothing to do with you, and no impact on your life.

How bizarre. You seem irrationally invested in other womens lives. And desperate for them to explain themselves to you!

Have a word with yourself!

I wear make up because I feel good with it on, and I LOOK BETTER with it on. And I don't give a flying monkey what you - or the OP - or anyone else thinks about that. I don't have to explain myself to anyone.

HTH.

I agree with much of what you say and don't bother wearing makeup myself. I do think most people look worse with makeup, just like most people look worse with botox and plastic surgery.

However, I have teenage girls and have always made clear to them that makeup should be a fun thing. I am happy for them to experiment with makeup and wear it for nights out. But it's bad for their skin to wear it every day and I don't want them to ever think something that can be a fun expressive thing should become an essential task that they have to do every day.

Asking "who are you putting makeup on for!? is quite telling. Thats is a very different question to "would you bother if you couldnt even see yourself"? .

I am not convinced many people actually look better with makeup. It often doesn't actually make less attractive women more attractive, and more attractive women are attractive without it anyway.

Your stridency doesn't help you, OP. You talk as if you alone have discovered misogyny, nobody else has ever thought or campaigned against the damaging effect of make up/appearance expectations/ media on women and girls' self esteem, (eg why are you surprised you are getting some support? This site is full of empowered women who are feminist and think about these things every day!!??). And you talk too much in absolutes. (Eg, Make up is not always caked on for all women. so you can't see the face - tons of women and girls wear no make up at all, of very minimal for specific events. You are actually talking about quite specific generations, within a specific geography, and certain socio economic and cultural groups. Also, People (men and women) do sometimes look better with some level of makeup, and it's not for you to say either way anyway. I agree the focus should not be on looks, the point should be that women shouldn't need to worry about their looks.

Calm down a bit, nuance your arguments, have some empathy and respect for the people whose thinking you are trying to change, and understand that a ton of people are thinking and caring about these things... and you are less likely to provoke such resistance. You may even find more allies!

I agree qith women saying they like make up for themselves, it can be creative and fun. I also I look (objectively) better with makeup - less blotchy and less tired which are just not particularly pleasant things to look at

But I do get where the OP is coming from. The school that recently changed its uniform policy to include false eyelashes as optional because so many girls were missing lessons being told to take them off, and so many girls were having severe anxiety about going to school without their eyelashes that they were missing school. Clearly its not makeup itself to blame here but I can see this situation is not OK, make up is not 'creative' or 'fun' for these girls, flashe eye lashes do not make children look 'better' they make them look like they are wearing false eyelashes. It's become a necessary, essential thing for these girls to the point where showing your normal eyelashes (in mascara) is abnormal and somehow shameful. I think this is the kind of situation the OP is talking about, which seems to apply only to girls and their appearance

Errr, checking your face? Essentials? What a prince he is.

Most men I know (I'm a man) don't actually like makeup anyway. The light touch-up, like a bit of eyeshadow, can be nice, but the rest is excessive.

Not that I care what men think, but most of them don't have a clue what make up women are or aren't wearing. They tend to think that unless a woman has bright red lips and heavy black eyeliner, then she's make up free. In fact that women could be wearing a full face of product. Most of the 'natural' looking women they find attractive are probably not 'natural' at all. Men are clueless about this sort of thing.

I don’t usually wear make up, but I had a professional makeup for a black tie do so e years ago and I was quite disappointed with it. Didn’t transform me in the way I thought it would.

I love make up. I'm a huge fan of it. It's probably best you just accept it anyway op, as it literally isn't going anywhere, it's one of the biggest industries in the world.

I have some ultra natural looking make up and nobody, no not even you, can tell I'm wearing it. I just look glowy. I have some really outlandish colours and eyeliners too. I spend significantly on skincare and make up and it makes me happy. It's not misogynistic and I like anybody in make up, my partner doesn't wear it in the streets but im bed sometimes. He looks hot as fuck in lipstick.

I also like face tattoos, birth marks, freckles etc. I'm down for all that.

At the end of the day it's a form of expression, like dying your hair or wearing a particular style of clothes. It could have cultural or personal symbology too. I'm all about people expressing themselves and altering their appearance to one they feel comfortable with.

Do you have a department store nearby with many counters? You can get a make up lesson and the cost is offset against any items you buy. I got a lesson at MAC. Learned a lot about blending eye make up .

Then you are more conditioned than you think.

You don't know me. I am well aware of how societal expectations work - I teach it.
I'm intelligent enough to recognise it and understand that it's something I enjoy.

So year in year out on a desert island you’d continue to put make up on?

Again, yes.

Why? Who for?

Me. For me because I like it

Thank you I’m very rural but it might be something I look at to tie in with a trip out - thank you. I tend to put my horses needs first (rug wrecker!) but will look at this for my birthday.

“I'm all about people expressing themselves and altering their appearance to one they feel comfortable with.”

Except now we have a generation of women shaving off their pubic hair because porn told them it’s unattractive, dirty, gross, disgusting to have hair there.

Its not what you’re comfortable with, it’s what men out of sight decide every single day, to decide, what you’re are comfortable with.

The thing is you don’t know you’re being manipulated.

You imagine you’re “doing it for yourself” but you aren’t. You’re doing it because of widespread media images of what we should look like. All decided by men.

I like wearing make up. Simple as that.

What’s with everyone telling women what to wear the last few days? A poster telling another not to wear a top because of what her male colleagues may think, the sheer dress and how the woman would be perceived and now we are oppressed if we choose to wear make up.

I hate the phrase but you do you op.

So your basically saying you don’t believe women are capable of free choice if that choice isn’t the one you would make?

You imagine you’re “doing it for yourself” but you aren’t. You’re doing it because of widespread media images of what we should look like. All decided by men.

What gives you the authority to speak on behalf of all women.

its always the same on here.

woman chooses to wear make up. Does not give a shit if anyone else does or not.
woman chooses not to wear make up, gets irrationally angry and abusive that other women do.

I’m not angry. Not sure where you got that idea from but presumably my words have lit a flame!

If women want to buy into the patriarchy by wearing make up that’s fine. I am not angry with you. I do feel you’re letting the side down by pretending to be something you’re not and not just accepting yourself as you are, as do men. But I’m not angry at all.

This change is going to take time. I wish you all the best.

If I had some with me then yes. I like it. I like to create looks. I also dye my hair different colours. That is also for me. DH does not like it and would prefer I didn’t. But it makes me feel good.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/apr/27/makeup-a-glamorous-history-review-syphilis-sin-and-sperm-whales

I'm sorry but I do find public hair absolutely fucking disgusting. I shave it off yes but I absolutely do that for me. I do it when I'm single and before I even had sex because I dislike it so much. And it does trap odour and is grim. Unless you have you don't realise how vile it is. My partner (male) also shaves because it's fucking rank, and yes that includes his arse. I wouldn't touch a hairy man or woman (I'm bi) I'd be feeling thoroughly sick if I tried.