make up is misogynistic oppression

[sixtyandsomething]

I hate make up, because of the devastating damage it does to the lives of women and girls

Obviously I don't wear any, so it doesn't damage my life.

But I am a teacher, and see its devastating impact on the lives of literally thousands of girls

It is ridiculous to think it makes women look "beautiful". Women without make up are beautiful. Women with make up look like they have a load of chemical crap smeared on their face to cover up their natural features. Which is what they do.

Thinking this looks "better" than a face without make up is just misogynistic programming and conditioning.

Girls are literally taught and programmed and schooled and conditioned to believe they can't go out without their faces covered. I speak to girls who tell me they will kill themselves if they have to take it off. They are surrounded by media images of women smeared in the crap, and are conditioned to think this is what a normal female face looks like.

It is expensive, time consuming and bad for your skin, but worst of all it is oppressive.

Just look at this picture and compare the natural look of the men, who just have the minimum make up required for the lighting, and the massively overexaggerated, false, completely covered up look of the women, who apparently need to cover their lips with an unnatural colour, paint extra circles around their eyes, change their eyelashes and eyebrows, and cake all the skin on their face in gunk in order to be fit to be seen.

And if you look at this picture and think "what is she on about - those women just look normal" then PLEASE stop for a moment and ask yourself WHY you think gunk-smeared to the point that no natural skin can be seen is "normal" for a woman!

I am not expecting much agreement, as I think so many women are so tightly in the grip of the (mostly male run) cosmetics industry, that they can't even see how brainwashed they are

But please think twice before passing this oppression on to your daughters.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the next generation of female BBC news readers grow up in a society where they feel free to show their actual natural faces in public.

I very rarely wear make-up, but when I do, I look better. It's not because men think I look better, it's because I actually do. I have eyes that work, so I know this!

of course. Make up done well , enhances and disguises. So our skin tone becomes flawless, dewy, our eye lashes longer and darker, hide our eye bags, make our cheeks flushed etc. that’s what it is designed to do. Make us look a more flawless version of ourselves

I would love to have flawless dewy skin, long luscious lashes, no dark circles etc, but I don’t. And as much as I’m happy with my face naturally and happy to go out with no make up on. I also one hundred percent know I look better with it, because having long lashes, flawless skin, no bags, is better.

and all the hate brigade forget those with low self esteem , where adding some make up to hide their bags, or blotchy or pasty skin, can give many people a confidence boost.

do some women wear it for men, sure, but most I’d hazard a guess wear it for themselves. Can some not go out without it, sure, but that’s about their own low self esteem and not something make up caused.

sure, in an ideal world we would all embrace our imperfections. But it’s not an ideal world. And why should we, when we can quickly erase them

it’s the same for anything, why cut your hair. Style it. Colour it. Why wear a bra. Why shave our legs. Why wear clothes that flatter, why are we not all walking round with long hair, uncoloured, braless, in a burlap sack , hairy legs on display.

we do it as personal grooming is important to many of us, how we present to the world. It makes us feel good. But if anyone doesn’t wish to. Then they can crack on. The burlap sacks are that way =>

This is what gets me about posters on Mumsnet - so many claim to be feminists but fundamentally misunderstand what that means!

Feminism is the right to choose - to work, not work, to wear makeup or not! I personally love makeup and like how it makes me feel and look. My sister hates it, so does not wear it.

Don't drag other women down because they're different to you.

Let's focus on something which we have no ability to change minds and opinions which is global chicken feed and not concern ourselves with female genital mutilation, oppression by dumbfuck cultures and suppression of ambition.

To be fair feminism is about equality in socio, economic and political spheres.

however it certainly isn’t very feminist to bully women or attack other women , bring them down because they chose to wear make up and you don’t like it.

we are all free to chose how we present. Inc the newsreaders, and if they think they look better when you can’t see their eye bags or blotchy skin, then more power to them.

the op and her cronies can wander round presenting as they wish, no one gives a shit, but they can jog on when telling us we are doing something wrong.

I do have to say I agree with you in some ways. When I was younger I would never leave the house without makeup, as I’ve gotten older I still wear it (mascara daily) but only now a full face if I’m going out somewhere nice. But this is my choice and I’m old enough to know I prefer to wear it when I fancy putting it on

I think it’s more what we teach girls, my mom wouldn’t leave the house without makeup and that’s all I knew. I will teach my daughter that she has the choice and it’s not needed everyday, on the flip side they pick these things up from friends/school/internet and I don’t want to stop her doing something that makes her feel more confident - I’ve been there and my confidence came with age.

Girls do seem to be wearing from a very young age now though!

I have body dysmorphic disorder. My family were constantly going on about my looks and one of my parents would sometimes praise my appearance and at other times was ruthlessly critical. It was relentless. Make up was something to hide behind.
The thing is, I was then bullied at school for wearing makeup.
Some of the teachers really made my life a misery too. One of them kept trying to hand me a wet wipe in the office and telling me to wipe the makeup off and when I refused I got suspended. It wasn’t even very much makeup, mostly concealer but some of them had a real fixation about it. Eventually I dropped out of school and it was a relief not to have to deal with that anymore.
All my life it seems like people can’t resist commenting on how I look. Whether it’s compliments or criticism or a combination of the two. Boys/ men don’t get this, not in the same way - that’s the feminist issue imo.
I think what people really need to do is focus less on appearance generally and keep their opinions to themselves and that includes if they wear makeup or not.

I have already commented on this thread that I agreed that it becomes a concern when it reaches a point where women and girls feel they have to cover themselves in make-up and hide their face and buy tons of products or even result to cosmetic surgery because they believe that their natural appearance is intrinsically 'flawed' and 'unattractive'.

I feel the social media selfie obsession and filters as well as awful 'role models' like the Kardashians have a lot to do with this nonsense...

I am also puzzled why some people on this thread claims that make up make them feel/look more 'professional' and 'groomed'. I really don't see how mascara can make you better at your job, in which case we would be saying that men are less 'professional' because they don't wear make up...

It sounds like the same naff idea that unless you wear high heels you cannot look 'polished' or 'professional' which is obviously complete nonsense.

I think the OP made some good points and that there seem to be a lot of denial when it comes to societal conditioning.

Yes make up is completely valid choice but I also do think it is important to not be blind to the different standards for men and women when it comes to expectations about appearance and the value place on how people look.

In my opinion women's appearance is still more regulated/scrutinised and judged than men's and that is an issue.

We don't want girls continuing to grow up thinking their main value is their face and body and developing low self-esteem as a result when their energy can be better spent in growing up into confident, smart and fearless human beings.

Love this response!

I love makeup, and I don't at all see it as a waste of my time to apply it. I really enjoy the ritual, and I like the way I look with makeup on. There's nothing anyone can say to make me not love makeup and use it. It's your personal opinion that makeup is oppressive to women, but it's not an opinion I personally share.

You either support women's autonomy, which includes their right to make choices and wear things that you may not personally approve of, or you don't.
Which is it?

I have roseacea and my skin is red and purple. Wearing make up puts me on an even keel with the rest of humanity and it has good skincare in it!!! My granny lived to 99 and didn’t go a day without make up. People don’t wear make up because of shame, they wear it because applying it feels lovely, like a treat, and they feel like they’re more ‘them’ with it. Their choice

This thread is very interesting to me.

At no point did the OP (in her original post - I haven't RTFT so it might come later) state that makeup was men oppressing women and yet that's what a lot of people have assumed and answered in the replies. We are all part of the patriarchy and all conditioned within it; men and women alike. It's not a big male conspiracy.

I also love the art form of makeup and the control it gives me over my appearance - a disguise, a costume. But I also do agree with the OP that somewhere underneath that is an anxiety that I must wear it in order to be acceptable in society or that I will be judged if I don't. It's not conscious but when I self-examine it is there. I am a successful feminist woman in her late 40s - I am society.

I also agree that the pressure on young girls and their mental health and self-esteem - deliberately** created by the beauty industry - is rank and damaging and I wish it would end.

This isn't true you can do things to elevate your mood to make you happier or to bring you joy it doesn't mean you are miserable and unhappy.

Agree

I partially agree with OP. I think if makeup is seen as being something a woman or girl has to have on as standard to be considered acceptable in the wider world it is problematic.

However, if it is seen as artistic/personal expression and something that can bring joy then it should be encouraged. I LOVE wearing makeup and putting together outfits. One of the things that makes me happy is choosing my outfit the night before and planning the make up to go with it. However I also respect that it isn't for everyone and that is completely fine too.

I work in a secondary as SMT and I do all the things that I'm apparently not supposed to do ...wear obvious makeup (love sparkles and bright lip colours), bright coloured clothes - often clashing (I reckon with my deeper skin tone I make it look good), lots of jewellry and yes...I'm THAT teacher that wears a pair of sparkly Irregular Choice heels to work everyday.

I think that it is important for the people to see that you can wear what you like, dress how you want, celebrate your personality and STILL be a successful, strong, intelligent woman. I'm plus size, dark skinned and I have worked hard to get to where I am. My clothes and makeup are a message to say I am who I am and I will still be who am I irregardless. I love that about myself and I want to model that for the young people around me. I don't want them to dress to fit in, I want them to experiment and be creative as these years are fundamentally about exploring themselves and finding out how they want to evolve.

Life is too short to be the same as everyone else. Be unashamedly yourself whether it is wearing makeup or not, wearing heels or only wearing trainers, wearing trousers or skirts, whatever it is. Honestly, if anyone criticises your fabulousness - it's their problem. Not yours.

If you had read the thread you will see that not one single person has stated they wear make up to impress men. Most, dare I say, all women wear make up for themselves.

You say men don’t care if women wear make up, a moot point as women don’t care what men’s opinion are if women wear make or not.

I wear make up as I enjoy it.
I look ill without it. A lot of people look great without it,but I don't. That's my choice!
I eyeshadow colours, glitter, the different textures of make up. That's only for going out though, most of the time I have a natural 5 minute routine.
I have a daughter and we like painting each others nails.
I'm don't contour or do anything special so hopefully my daughter wouldn't either. I just like wearing a bit.

I don't wear it for anyone else. I don't think my partner would notice if I had knickers of my head let alone if I was wearing make up or not 😅
Yes it's time consuming and a wasted of money.
But it's MY time and my money.
I am not oppressed.
You do you.

I love.make.up for me. I don't.care if husband likes it or not..he loves me either way and has done for over 40 yrs. I have a port wine stain on The right side of my face. It is purple and looks.like bruising. I was very conscious of it as a young girl. All those comments about my fave needs washing etc..I used my make up when I was a punk. To express myself. I embrace make.up to show my personality. Red lipstick when I am powerful.deep pink when I'm.sociable. I love the ritual of it all and how I can change.my look. During lockdown and not wearing make up my skin was awful because I wasn't looking after it. Ultimately it is my choice. I respect others to make their own I formed opinions on what they want to do. As an older female.i wouldn't dream.of replicating the patriarch and telling other women what to do. Rather.i always take the view of empowering other women to be who they want to be.. lipstick or not. You be you and I will be me.

Absolutely and it’s clearly not a societal pressure either. We just look better with it on, because that’s its whole function.

It evens out and brightens our skin tone. Who amongst us has naturally flawless skin. I don’t, but I can achieve that look with minimal make up . Does it look better than my normal rather grey pasty look. You betcha.

ithides under eye circles, do we look better not with visible under eye circles. Yup. We do. Don’t need to cover them up, but if we want to, yes why wouldn’t you.

short stubby light lashes, throw some mascara on. Suddenly they are dark and luxurious.

I really don’t get all this nonsense about societal expectations or devastating impacts. If I want to even out my skin tone etc I bloody will. Same as I shall dye my hair if I wish, shave my legs if I wish, wear a bra if I wish, have my hair cut and styled if I wish.

I agree with you to a certain degree but your opinion is very strong & tunnelled. I agree 'some' girls/women wear very heavy makeup but in my opinion 'most' barely wear any and if they do it's through their own choice. I have a friend who wears heavy makeup and you can literally see it sat on top of her skin but it's what she likes so that's cool! It doesn't concern me. It shouldn't matter to you what someone else does to their own body.

However, I was surprised at how my young daughter became interested in makeup considering I don't wear much so she's not copying me, but I tell her she can play with it and have fun but that's all it's for, a bit of fun.

I wore concealer today because I only got 3 hours sleep last night and had dark circles under my eyes. Hope that’s ok with you op?

Hi OP

Let’s add high heels too

Honestly this ship has totally sailed. Woman have always been held to a higher beauty standard than men.
However having said that I suffer from rosacea and am delighted that I have make up to cover it unlike men who don't have that option. Teenagers girls can cover their acne, teenage boys can not. ( in the main) and yes I know no one should be forced to cover acne or rosacea or anything but most of us like being able to camouflage the bits of us we don't like .

Of course in the universe it shouldn't matter what woman look like but in the real world in this century it does and I'm glad that I have the option to sometimes wear make up and sometimes not.

I thought it was all about the TikTok skin care routine/clean girl/natural looking beauty these days?

where I am you certainly get the minority with huge lashes and drawn on brows but the other day I had a 13 telling me about the importance of retinoids for “glass skin”???

And I don’t wear much makeup, but you can prize my mascara off my cold dead body (which is what I would look like without it)