make up is misogynistic oppression

[sixtyandsomething]

I hate make up, because of the devastating damage it does to the lives of women and girls

Obviously I don't wear any, so it doesn't damage my life.

But I am a teacher, and see its devastating impact on the lives of literally thousands of girls

It is ridiculous to think it makes women look "beautiful". Women without make up are beautiful. Women with make up look like they have a load of chemical crap smeared on their face to cover up their natural features. Which is what they do.

Thinking this looks "better" than a face without make up is just misogynistic programming and conditioning.

Girls are literally taught and programmed and schooled and conditioned to believe they can't go out without their faces covered. I speak to girls who tell me they will kill themselves if they have to take it off. They are surrounded by media images of women smeared in the crap, and are conditioned to think this is what a normal female face looks like.

It is expensive, time consuming and bad for your skin, but worst of all it is oppressive.

Just look at this picture and compare the natural look of the men, who just have the minimum make up required for the lighting, and the massively overexaggerated, false, completely covered up look of the women, who apparently need to cover their lips with an unnatural colour, paint extra circles around their eyes, change their eyelashes and eyebrows, and cake all the skin on their face in gunk in order to be fit to be seen.

And if you look at this picture and think "what is she on about - those women just look normal" then PLEASE stop for a moment and ask yourself WHY you think gunk-smeared to the point that no natural skin can be seen is "normal" for a woman!

I am not expecting much agreement, as I think so many women are so tightly in the grip of the (mostly male run) cosmetics industry, that they can't even see how brainwashed they are

But please think twice before passing this oppression on to your daughters.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the next generation of female BBC news readers grow up in a society where they feel free to show their actual natural faces in public.

I grew up being told that makeup was muck and only certain types of women (vain, silly, promiscuous, told by men, trying to attract men) wore it, nail polish or shaved their legs.

I dated a couple of men who believed the same. Reality hit me like a freight train when one told me in absolute seriousness that if he ever saw me wearing it and, in particular, found that I was wearing nail polish on my toes and sandals to show it off, he'd take a hammer and smash my feet. Because it wasn't really about hating makeup, it was about hating women.

After I'd got the Hell out of that, I wore every type and style of makeup, had every hair colour, nails in light, deep, shiny, patterned, glittery polishes and removed as much or as little body air as I wanted.

DP met me when I wasn't wearing any makeup. We started dating and I'd never worn any - and then he asked me to be his +1 for a friend's wedding, so I bought a dress and put some makeup on.

When he came to pick me up, his reaction was perfect/hilariously clichéd - jaw dropped, huge smile and 'You look beautiful!'. He was very clear later that he loved how I looked both ways and if I wanted to wear makeup every day, he'd think and tell me I was beautiful - and if I didn't want to, he'd think and tell me I was beautiful. And he does.

That's what women and girls need - to be told they are beautiful. Not that they look like crap with 'muck' or 'gunk' on their faces, not that they look like crap without makeup, but that they are beautiful.

Your hatred of makeup and criticisms of those who wear it is just the other face of misogyny.

What about colouring hair?
wearing push up or padded bras?
wearing flattering styles of clothes? It’s all the same type of way to make us look and feel a bit more confident when facing the world.

I think make up give people a level of confidence, I’ve struggled with my skin for decades and would be very uncomfortable not covering my skin to be honest!
I think we are lucky we have something that can instantly make you look healthier if you are pale, or cover your skin if you have a break out

I agree. Under wired bras shouldnt be 'torture' if you are wearing one that fits!
I also wear makeup every day, my makeup is probably the most expensive thing I own and I don't begrudge spending £££ on it because it makes me happy. I certainly don't wear it for anyone else or because I think I look hideous without it - I put it on regardless of whether or not I'm leaving the house or will see anyone else.

I wear a small amount of make up now because I feel better doing so. Nothing to do with being conditioned (until mid 30s I very rarely wore any make up) but because it makes me feel better about me and that’s allowed.

YABU. If anything it's misandry. It's women that comment on other women with backhanded remarks and jealousy. Men couldn't care less whether you wear makeup or not. Makeup is designed to accentuate features. I've just got back into makeup properly and I'm really enjoying it. My DH doesn't notice unless I've made a mess of it and look ridiculous as a result. It really is the women that cause the pressure in society with the expectations on how to look, not the men. Hair, makeup, jewelry, clothing, shoes etc all criticised by women. Men know how to be friends, women don't. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

I find unwired bras uncomfortable.

I get measured for my bras and always wear underwired....they work for me.
We're all different - choice is good whether it's make up, bras or whatever.

I think you are right about the expectation for women to look a certain way, but wrong to be angry at make up alone. The problem is social conditioning, you are right to be angry about that and the damage it does to young women. But makeup is just one symptom of that and not inherently oppressive in and of itself. You’re also talking about one absolute extreme of makeup, lots of people (men too!) just dab a bit of concealer under their eyes to hide tiredness.

I think I feel the way you do about makeup about fillers and plastic surgery, but it is not the surgery that’s the problem, it’s the unrealistic and damaging beauty standards people are bombarded with every day.

No idea how to do makeup so just wear eye liner, lipstick and a bit of blusher.

I love it. Don’t wear it at the weekends and most days I’m just home, but I do love how it makes me look.

In fact I would love to have my eyes done professionally. I’ve never known how to do this.

Women if you want to wear make up do. If you don’t don’t but let’s not sit here and judge each other.

PS to those of you that can do eye makeup really well I’m in total awe of you.

@VolvoFan "Men couldn't care less whether you wear makeup or not."

Bollocks. I get treated a lot better by men when I am wearing makeup vs none.

Not to mention the insufferably smug sense of superiority because OP doesn't wear make-up, presumably because she is such a pure and natural beauty.

The fact is, most women do look better with a bit of make-up and there is nothing wrong with wanting to make the best of your features.

I completely agree that over-blown pouty lips, slug eyebrows and false eyelashes that cause a mini tsunami every time you blink are not particularly attractive, but they are fashionable and young girls and women like to conform. I see no harm in that.

One day, they will look back, cringe and laugh, just as my generation look back at bright blue eyeshadow, shocking pink lipstick and eyeliner that extended half an inch outside the eyelids that was fashionable when I was young.

Who remembers the huge messy hairdos that needed half a can of hairspray to keep looking "good"? That's what "looking good" looked like then and it did us no harm.

To suggest that these (faintly ridiculous) fashions are at all harmful is completely ridiculous.

The tide is turning. I’m also delighted it’s at 40%.

Make up is an huge part of the patriarchal narrative which oppresses women into wearing make up because they think they aren’t good enough without it to attract a mate.

Historically beauty has been the highest trade for a woman. That is how she could elevate her prospects.

And this still goes on today repeatedly but it’s slowly changing.

The fact that women are better educated, don’t need a man, can inherit wealth, own property, all these things that bring equality over the last two centuries, we will eventually catch up with looks too.

To compare women in Afghanistan etc to women in the west is ludicrous. Those women are openly oppressed by the patriarchy.

The form in the west is historical insidious oppression by the media to tell us we are not good enough as we are and get us to spend a fortune trying to hoodwink others and ourselves that we need this crap. Who are these companies all run by? Men.

Women in the west are CHOOSING not to wear make up to break the patriarchy and level the playing field.

Our obsession with our looks rather than our values and what we can do with our brains is idiocy. Men don’t put themselves through this agro, so why should we.

Wait, Are women choosing not to wear make up to break the patriarchy or because they dont want to? Female motivations should not be centred around men..

Completely agree!

I love wearing make up - I like experimenting with colours on my eyes.

I've just read the other thread and the @sixtyandsomething is raving and foul mouthed about make up and disparaging about women who wear it, suggesting they have self esteem issues.

There is something very odd going on here.

I wear underwired bras daily and have always found them totally comfortable. You are wearing the wrong size if they are not comfortable.

Men may not care less whether you wear make up or not (if we ignore those who bang on about women wearing too much) but you'd go a long way to find more than a handful who don't care what you look like at all.
They may not care if you wear make up if your make up is subtle, and they can't tell either way. They may not care if you have good skin and attractive features, so in their opinion 'don't need it' but I think you'll find most of them care a great deal that you're attractive. Otherwise plain women would get the same attention as attractive ones, wouldn't they?
Men are less observant and knowledgeable when it comes to make up certainly. But it's a bit daft to frame them as superior beings far above caring about the superficiality of how women look and that the pressure about appearance comes only from other women.

Or maybe for most women wearing make up or not is simply personal choice? Why does everything have to have some deep routed meaning to it?

if I wear make up it’s because I want to. Same as I pick out the clothes I want to wear!

I agree with you OP.

I am not ashamed to show my real actual face day to day.

If I had to go on TV I would only have the level of makeup that a man would have in order to not look weird and washed-out.

I think it's a massive shame that girls are conditioned to thinking their faces aren't acceptable unless painted over.

I don’t think anyone can claim they are making a free choice to do it, any more than a choice to shave legs or wear a hijab is a genuinely free choice when the cultural pressure about the unacceptability of the alternate option is so overwhelming to a teenage girl, and by the time you are old enough to have a bit more confidence to be able to choose againsr cultural pressure it's already an ingrained habit.

I am not ashamed to show my real actual face day to day.

Neither am I, that's not what I choose to wear make up

I love make up and...get ready to clutch your pearls I get Botox and dye my hair too.
I don't do it to conform to male misogyny. I do it because I like it.
I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks of me. You should try to care less about what other people choose to do with their own face etc. rather than having the narrative you're right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

What about colouring hair?

I've spent the morning dying my hair pink just because I feel like it.

I'm off out later and will spend time doing my make up a particular way. Again, because i feel like it.

I didn’t wear make up in my teens.

i very rarely wore it in my 20s.

im in my 40s now and wear a little bit most days but not every day by far.

for me it is without doubt free choice, and I think most women are the same. Even if they want to wear make up every day it can still be their choice and I think it’s quite insulting to women to suggest they can’t make their own choices simply because that choice is different to yours.

Bahahahaha

I wear make-up and enjoy it but I basically still think you're right OP. I think it's one of the things the future will judge us for.

I can't see YOU just because you don't wear make up. Unless your entire personality and character are on your face. Far more interesting is who you are, what you enjoy, what are your values etc. What you look like is only a tiny component of that. And if you choose to wear make up, crack on.