make up is misogynistic oppression

[sixtyandsomething]

I hate make up, because of the devastating damage it does to the lives of women and girls

Obviously I don't wear any, so it doesn't damage my life.

But I am a teacher, and see its devastating impact on the lives of literally thousands of girls

It is ridiculous to think it makes women look "beautiful". Women without make up are beautiful. Women with make up look like they have a load of chemical crap smeared on their face to cover up their natural features. Which is what they do.

Thinking this looks "better" than a face without make up is just misogynistic programming and conditioning.

Girls are literally taught and programmed and schooled and conditioned to believe they can't go out without their faces covered. I speak to girls who tell me they will kill themselves if they have to take it off. They are surrounded by media images of women smeared in the crap, and are conditioned to think this is what a normal female face looks like.

It is expensive, time consuming and bad for your skin, but worst of all it is oppressive.

Just look at this picture and compare the natural look of the men, who just have the minimum make up required for the lighting, and the massively overexaggerated, false, completely covered up look of the women, who apparently need to cover their lips with an unnatural colour, paint extra circles around their eyes, change their eyelashes and eyebrows, and cake all the skin on their face in gunk in order to be fit to be seen.

And if you look at this picture and think "what is she on about - those women just look normal" then PLEASE stop for a moment and ask yourself WHY you think gunk-smeared to the point that no natural skin can be seen is "normal" for a woman!

I am not expecting much agreement, as I think so many women are so tightly in the grip of the (mostly male run) cosmetics industry, that they can't even see how brainwashed they are

But please think twice before passing this oppression on to your daughters.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the next generation of female BBC news readers grow up in a society where they feel free to show their actual natural faces in public.

@sixtyandsomething Have a snickers bar. You're not you when you're hungry.

No offence. But I don't actually care what men think about my appearance.

That's not why I wear make up.

At my work all men wear make up for filming, especially live TV.

But i know what you mean, men get powdered whereas women have full on makeup. On the bright side, I notice more older women - especially mums (who aren't client/external facing) not wearing makeup to the office.

Younger women at my work all have heavy makeua. They are conscious at their age, dating etc. I agree i dont like it as i have a young daughter and dread to think she'll do the same.

Not everyone is naturally beautiful - and i dont mean in a conventional sense. My eyes are small and I suffered from bad acne for nearly 2 decades. Imagine the knock on effects. I feel fortunate i could use make up to hide these, and felt sorry for men who can't. When i was younger DH (then boyfriend) was the ONLY person who'd see my bare face.

I'm 50 and have always worn light make- up. As women age the change in sex hormones makes lips thinner, eyes smaller and skin thinner. I'm happy to grow old gracefully but want a little help from make-up to do this. The overtly sexual make- up that is popular amongst the insta fans is depressing and often used to mask inadequacies that women and young girls feel which is very sad.

Women have agency. Unfortunately many girls also have access to social media and an unhealthy desire to conform with all the female-created content they watch. If there's a problem, that's where you should be looking. Much of it comes from other young woman with a lucrative 'influencer' non-job doing the bidding of the big make-up brands.

I usually wear a lot of makeup but it's a pretty natural look- spf bb cream, highlighter & blush (cream and power for both), eyeshadow, eyeliner, mascara, power and setting spray but in neutral colours. Also wear contact lenses and apply a toner, run a brush through my hair and teeth, throw on my clothes and I am good to go..

It is but one aspect of my appearance and the only one I am bothered about for some reason.. I am not fussed about fashion - usually wear a baggy floral dress, the same old pair of loafers and coat. Mumsnet once said I have terrible dress sense when I posted a pic of my torso but I don't really care. Don't really do anything to my hair but brush it and use conditioner (it is a home dye job though). Skincare also minimal- cleanse and moisturize. I often forget to shave (thank goodness for tights and dresses with sleeves). No Polish on nails

My makeup takes 5 -7 mins daily, there are many women who would spend more time straightening/blow drying their hair or picking out an outfit or applying copious amounts of skincare. But the OP probably wouldn't think that the hair styling or the meticulous dressing is an issue cos all she would register is - good hair or she always looks nicely dressed. But different strokes for different folks. Mine just happens to be makeup. The makeup brands may have my money but the haircare brands, hair salon and fashion brands don't! Or IPL and waxing or whatever other women do.

What I don't get is women who do everything- beautifully applied makeup, salon dyed hair, mani pedi, professional looking blow dry daily, carefully chosen clothes daily in line with the latest fashion, always waxed and plucked. Must be exhausting.

@menopausalmare I think that's a good distinction. I'm not (never did) aiming to look seductive or sexy. I'm aiming to make the skin either side of my nose a little less flushed. It's hardly the same thing imo.

Paloma Faith was good on this on Woman's Hour. She said she actually contacted an influencer in PM's and asked what she was doing wrong as she felt terrible post partum. The influencer basically said they have to pretend everything is perfect to get money and that feeds their family, so on it goes. I think I need to get Paloma's new book.

One thing I cannot stand are teen girls wearing a ton of foundation which looks so false. If they are covering spots, which is the worst thing for spots.

I don't wear make up as have an eye condition which is irritated by eye make up plus no to lipstick as brands I have tried change the colour.

As a feminist I understand what you’re saying op, but the acne ridden blackhead-covered 14 year old (at a sink comprehensive back in the day) in me wants to cry.

That make up I used to camouflage my skin (and no, it didn’t make my spots worse) saved me. It wasn’t for vanity, it was for sanity.

This puritanical idea that all frippery is man-pleasing nonsense doesn’t acknowledge the pleasure and self care women get from it. The sharing tips, bonding with other women, buying and displaying of it - it’s all joyful for those of us who like make-up. It’s a sisterhood. And that’s important.

Jeez, chill out.

Personally I hate the scrubbed face look. Shall I start a thread?!

It is amazing how much pressure there is put on girls to look a certain way. And make up is high up on the agenda.
I barely ever wear makeup. I have 3 boys 1 girl (she is the youngest) and aged about 13 she started buying makeup. She must have about 100 different things of make up and about 20 of cleansers, creams, body washes, perfume etc. In contrast the 3 boys have deodorant and use shampoo, conditioner and soap that I buy. that's it.
The length of time she spends getting ready is 5 times that of the boys, the pressure on her isn't come from home so must be society (I am a right scruff bucket and live in comfy clothes most the time).
Currently despite all the effort she wears relatively little make up but the contrast of the time, effort and money compared to the 3 boys is stark. Many girls in her school wear false lashes and so much makeup they would be unrecognisable without.
Out of the kids 100s of friends only 1 boy wears any make up and probably only 1 girl doesn't.

Feel free

A lot of people are against makeup and fashion because they're seen as a woman's thing and therefore superficial and bad; men who are misogynists and women with internalised misogyny.

OP, your approach to this topic is all kinds of wrong - overly aggressive, presumptuous and offensive towards women and girls. Dismissing anyone who wears make up as brainwashed and stupid isn’t going to make them listen to you.

If you actually, really feel strongly about this subject as a feminist issue rather than just using it as a reason to shit stir and insult other women……..then you might start by helping some women & girls build up the confidence, self-esteem and emotional resilience/ intelligence to be comfortable in their own skin.
You might start by educating in a calm, useful and meaningful way on where societal pressures come from, on the environmental impact of make up use, on the science involved.
You might write to your MP, or start a positive social media campaign, or take any number of activist actions.

I suspect you will do none of that because this topic isn’t really something you care that deeply about. It’s simply what you use to denigrate other women.

Let women make their own choices without turning on them and dismissing them as a waste of space. You might be angry but there are better ways to channel that anger and better people to target for your ire.

I agree. It has become so normalised people don't realise. I have a daughter and have worn far less make up since she was born because I didn't want her thinking it was a normal thing to do. She will have enough pressure from society as it is. I play a lot of sport and wearing lots of make up would be a disaster and I've noticed women who play sport tend to focus on their physical health rather than their physical appearance and the natural consequence is their physical appearance is improved because they are fit and healthy. I think women and girls would be shocked if their team turned up wearing false eyelashes and thick make up on. Luckily most of my friends don't tend to wear make up and I'm hoping that will help but I feel sad that I'm aware that I have really had to consider this. I'm also aware that when boys start to grow facial hair it is more celebrated but when girls grow leg and armpit hair we scrabble around to remove it. The message is that there is something wrong with you now. I'm aware I'm part of that message as I shave and I can't imagine I wouldn't help my daughter to do that either. But it is an ethical dilemma and sadly, most women don't even recognise that anymore.

There are also so many other things a woman can do to enhance her appearance which take longer and are harder than a 5 min quick makeup look of base blush highlighter powder and a bit of eye definition and lippie .

Waxing of intimate areas- painful
Hairstyling
Adhering to fashion - far more expensive and cumbersome than for men who just need a button down, jeans and jumper to look put together
Fake tan
8 step skincare routines

Why not criticise those things too.

I completely agree with this.

This is really interesting because my three boys have terrible acne (all have scarring and ended up on medication). I have actually offered them to wear cover up for things like prom but they wouldn't interested and have never really been bullied for it. Where as DD covers each pimple and is much more worried by her up coming acne than the boys. Who though they disliked it didn't stress about it in the same way. What the op is saying surely completely feeds into this. the idea that you were bullied for having spots is because we expect people (especially women and girls) to look a certain way.

The mental health crisis is in part caused by societal pressures though. Pressures to look and behave in a certain way. Make up is part of that. I don't like it, don't wear it and never would but there's a difference between light make up for men or women and the extremes we see in young women today. For many, it's not about enhancing what you have, it's about hiding behind layers and layers of expensive shite; not being brave enough to go into the world as you really are because of a, not always misguided, perception that you'll be judged; not feeling able to leave the house without it; not wanting to be seen because the real you isn't good enough without the expensive shite that's being pushed at you. So yes, in one sense it is a bandaid but it's to cover up a problem it's causing or contributing to.

This in spades.. (or trowels? of makeup)

Mirrors are the work of the devil.

So, you support the OPs view that make up is misogynist, and your reason for doing so is that.. men don't like it?
I'm not usually one for emojis but...😂

An actual feminist issue relating to makeup is the lack of regulation regarding safety and ingredients - I'm absolutely sure that if it was something men used regularly the quality and safety would be much better. Just look at the recent talc scandal.

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