make up is misogynistic oppression

[sixtyandsomething]

I hate make up, because of the devastating damage it does to the lives of women and girls

Obviously I don't wear any, so it doesn't damage my life.

But I am a teacher, and see its devastating impact on the lives of literally thousands of girls

It is ridiculous to think it makes women look "beautiful". Women without make up are beautiful. Women with make up look like they have a load of chemical crap smeared on their face to cover up their natural features. Which is what they do.

Thinking this looks "better" than a face without make up is just misogynistic programming and conditioning.

Girls are literally taught and programmed and schooled and conditioned to believe they can't go out without their faces covered. I speak to girls who tell me they will kill themselves if they have to take it off. They are surrounded by media images of women smeared in the crap, and are conditioned to think this is what a normal female face looks like.

It is expensive, time consuming and bad for your skin, but worst of all it is oppressive.

Just look at this picture and compare the natural look of the men, who just have the minimum make up required for the lighting, and the massively overexaggerated, false, completely covered up look of the women, who apparently need to cover their lips with an unnatural colour, paint extra circles around their eyes, change their eyelashes and eyebrows, and cake all the skin on their face in gunk in order to be fit to be seen.

And if you look at this picture and think "what is she on about - those women just look normal" then PLEASE stop for a moment and ask yourself WHY you think gunk-smeared to the point that no natural skin can be seen is "normal" for a woman!

I am not expecting much agreement, as I think so many women are so tightly in the grip of the (mostly male run) cosmetics industry, that they can't even see how brainwashed they are

But please think twice before passing this oppression on to your daughters.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the next generation of female BBC news readers grow up in a society where they feel free to show their actual natural faces in public.

I can't vote but I agree.
The person above who said no one likes to think the things they do are socially conditioned is spot on.
If I'm invited to someone's special occasion eg Wedding I wear make up, because it signifies that I have made a special effort, but otherwise nothing.
I have neither encouraged nor discouraged my DD to do makeup and grooming and she does.
She is late teens and voicing increasing discontent about the time, effort and vast amounts of money she spends on make up and grooming products. She is aware that if she did not do this she would be judged as lacking, and she's right.
Some boys choose to, and it's great they are not judged, but we all know that boys who don't wear makeup, have styled hair or nail grooming are not judged in the same way. And there is no comparison with stage makeup that actors or people on TV use.
I know I'm judged but I don't care. I was talking with a group of Mums and when I said I'd rather my 9 year old played out than stayed in putting makeup on, she said all girls do it because they don't want to look like dogs. I knew that was aimed at me, but it reflected badly on her. I prioritise good haircuts as I don't colour or wear makeup, and I can see that this is also socially conditioned, but it feels like a more ethical choice - no chemicals or makeup products, just my hairdresser and her scissors.

Next, we won’t be allowed to show any skin because “the men have conditioned us we SHOULD show skin” and clearly it’s not our choice to show off shoulders/arms/stomachs or heaven forbid ANKLES, but a cleverly constructed manipulation from men who just want to see our bodies!!!

Me too! Gonna do a whole face just to rid the negativity of OP 😂😂😂

CHEmicALS!!! PaTRIArchy!!!¡¡!

Some responses here are really unintelligent. It's the typical default when someone is triggered or you know there is truth in what you're hearing.

This debate reminds me of veganism. We don't like being told what to do, we don't like being dictated to and we tend not to be ok with militant viewpoints. I'm not a vegan but I love animals. This makes me a hypocrite. I agree entirely with the concept of veganism being right. Animals do not deserve to be treated the way we treat them. But doing something about this if you are an animal lover takes an awful lot of work - so it's easier to just say vegans are all nutjobs.

No one likes the truth. That's why reactions are so very strong. We can see the truth but accept we want to do it our way for whatever reason

Makeup helps many feel more confidence. Is it misogyny to feel confident?

I am curious about those who are anti makeup and their attitude to clothing.
Do you just grab the first item that fits or do you choose clothes that you think suit you and make you "look nice"? If so, who are you looking nice for?

Realistically, I don’t think humans will ever stop enhancing themselves with paints and powders. Women in the main, but men too have been doing it for millenia.

I watched qn episode of ‘Royal Autopsy’ on Elizabeth I recently and the skin-whitening venetian ceruse which was hugely popular with high status women at the time and which was made of powdered lead, borax and vinegar was still visible on Elizabeth’s body. (The bodies on RA are synthetic but based on observations made at the time of the subject’s final illness). You literally painted it on. Not only must it have smelled horrible but people knew how toxic it was, that it led to hair loss and poisoning. But they still used it!

Anyway, I like make up, though I don’t wear much. The trend is for a more natural look at the moment and the heavily contoured look of the Kardashians is dated now.

I prioritise good haircuts

Ah but why* * To make you look good for others? Yourself? Now apply your reasoning with that to the reasons why others choose to wear make-up and you'll realise that it's the same. I could argue that the reason you chose to have a "good haircut" is because you have been led to believe that women with hair that has been left untouched are unattractive, brainwashed and all the other nonsense the OP (and others) have spouted irt those who choose to wear make-up. See how that works?

Not on the individual level, no, it isn't misogyny. Each person gets confidence from things we have learned are significant in our peer group. So it's perfectly possible to put on makeup for yourself and get a genuine confidence boost. AND ALSO to know that it's completely socially constructed. At that point you have a choice - ignore it and think about something else - or start to consider whether your connection between the thing and the confidence, genuine as it is, a real emotion - has been manufactured by someone who wants something from us.

I like to do that level of considering with make-up. I'm less good at doing it with cars, clothes, eating animals, buying new furniture rather than upcycling old furniture, and a load of other things that impact the world.

But I am humble enough to know that I'm choosing to ignore the manufactured desire I have. I don't just roll my eyes and pretend that I am immune from it all and by sheer coincidence it's 2024 style makeup that gives me confidence. Makeup! Not, say, having a bone through my nose or white lead face paint or tiny bound feet or blue woad all over me. What a coincidence that the thing I "just do for me" is the same as the thing that this massive industry wants me to do!!

Just to stress that I'm not anti makeup. I think her point is valid, I agree with it. I feel it's a great starting point just to be more aware of the origins of things like this and how we are conditioned and don't even realise it.

I think OPs main point is being missed.

I live in leggings and jeans. 🤣 If I was 25 I'd absolute want to look good, even knowing what I know. I am so anti all this Botox, fillers nonsense though and feel at any age id never go there.

I definitely look better with a bit of make up on. Nothing wrong with a subtle bit of makeup to hide blemishes an accentuate best features. No reason by boys can’t wear a bit of concealer either. I do hate the way young girls wear soooo much make-up and those heavily fake eyebrows that look like they’ve taken a marker to their brows, though. They look like drag artists.

@flyingvisit you're right, clothes is the same. I mean we have to be clothed, for warmth and as part of the structure of society around sexual politics and privacy. (These mores do change, of course, and when they do they become noticable. See the "see through dress" thread or pj's in supermakets)

But we don't need fast fashion and jeans changing to boot cut from skinny or this season's colours, decided by a load of fuckwits in Milan, or wherever, 2 years ago.

I buy fast fashion and it's harmful to some actual people on the other side of the world. It probably also contributes to some class division here at home too.

But if I was like some of the pro-makeup voices on here I'd be saying it was boring and fun spongy to even consider that, and I'd say bootcut jeans are purely my choice this season because they suit me and I've decided to switch from skinny to bootcut totally all on my own!

It's a vanishing small number of women who don't do something that involves time, money or effort to enhance how they look.

Whether that's a good haircut/style, wearing nicely made, flattering clothes, looking after skin or nails, exercising or dieting for their figure.

Singling out makeup is a bit arbitrary. We're all at it, in our various ways. And as it's been a key element of human society since the dawn of time, I doubt it's going anywhere. So I'm not quite sure what the OP was hoping to achieve with this thread?

I suppose I can see other benefits to diet, haircuts, clothes and cutting your nails. They're all practical things you have to do anyway so you might as well do them nicely.

Though jewellery is similar - and similar to makeup is lovely, fun, expensive, confers status, is annoying and distracting and should be banned in schools.

Some responses here are really unintelligent. It's the typical default when someone is triggered or you know there is truth in what you're hearing

Nope. I am more than happy to hear well reasoned arguments about how the patriarchy has influenced women's appearance standards and happy to discuss those as we are all influenced by them. What I object to is the "why do you slap all that gunk on your face- you shouldn't because I say so" argument because not only is that patronising, it comes across as really unintelligent and condescending. Thoughtful and curious opinions about it I am happy to engage in. But not the OP's kind because telling people what to do never ever wins them to your side- its basic psychology.

I'm male and I agree with you OP, I do think it's a form of oppression and misogyny.

DP and her sister both feel like they're naked if they leave the house without any makeup on. How can that possibly be a good thing?

Imagine if most women felt they had to wear sunglasses every time they left the house. It wouldn't be a law or anything, but society had decided that women were less pretty if you could see their eyes. You forget your sunglasses one day and other women judge you for not wearing them, men think you're suddenly ill or less attractive. Imagine women having to pay an extra £50 every month to men because they need new sunglasses for a wedding, or they lost the last pair. Imagine waking up the first time after sleeping with a new boyfriend and worrying because he's going to see your eyes for the first time. (OK, its not a perfect metaphor)

It's ridiculous isn't it, if another country had this rule we'd probably look at them as weird, and the practice as deeply oppressive. Now substitute sunglasses with makeup and eyes with bare skin. Why is it suddenly not oppression?

Obviously some societal expectations are a good thing. We're all expected to wear clothes that cover our genitals when in public. Yes, there's a bunch of nudists out there that would probably call that oppressive, but it's not misogynistic. On the other hand, the fact that men can walk around with their tops off and women can't is.

There's nothing wrong with either sex wanting to wear makeup. But it should be optional, just like wearing a hat or sunglasses. As long as women feel pressured to wear it, feel wrong without it, feel forced to spend money on it, then its patriarchal bullshit.

My DD is 16. She owns makeup. She wears it very rarely, and because she feels like it. She wears nail polish a lot more, but again it's because she wants to, and she'll happily go weeks without it. Maybe that'll change in the future, but I hope it won't, and I think it's a testament to (mostly) DPs parenting that DD feels this way.

That is what we should be aiming for. Once all women (and men) feel like its an option, then it's not an issue any more.

They're all practical things you have to do anyway so you might as well do them nicely.

I don't think that negates the point. You have to cover your body, yes, but if you do that with a nice dress or well cut trousers or top, you are doing it for exactly the same fundamental reason as people doing makeup.

I did once know a woman who eschewed it all. She wore shapeless black trousers and black top every single day. Kept her head shaved. No makeup ever. It's certainly possible, but almost no one does it.

100% agree. Well said. It is all nonsense. Don't get me started on under wired bras. Those things are torture and so painful. And totally unnatural

Only in the same way that all clothes and shoes are unnatural. We aren't born with them. We wear them to cover up, protect or improve the appearance of parts of our body. I've worn underwired bras that were as comfortable as non-wired ones. Certainly not painful.

I agree! And I agree with your point. We do all do it. The only thing narking me is the women on the thread taking it personally when it's pointed out that it's socially conditioned.

On some days I look like the living dead without makeup so I'll stick with it thanks. I wear it for me, no-one else but you think what you like.

Not this shit again.

Nobody is forced to wear make-up against their will. I haven't worn make-up for years.

Wild suggestion here, ever thought women put makeup on for themselves. Not everything is about men.

Surely as teacher you should be treating child to be happy with themselves and not judging others like you right here……

Yeah, I haven’t worn it since 2002 - and even then, I only ever wore eye shadow, mascara, and occasionally lipstick. When I go out in public, no one gasps and faints or gives a damn.

I think there are healthy and unhealthy ways to use makeup. Not wanting anyone to see your natural face is unhealthy. Having fun experimenting with different looks is healthy.

I feel more attacked, judged, and shamed by your post, OP, than I've ever felt about the state of my face, with or without makeup.
Surely being a feminist means having a right to choose how we look, how we dress, the colour and cut of our hair, and yes, if we want to wear make up.
You really just sound like you hate women and I'm very sad for the impressionable teenage girls in your care.