IT’S NOT A TAX BREAK! Education settings are exempt!

[LaceyLou82]

Fed up of Labour calling the VAT on fees a tax break! Ideologically this is so very unsound, we are talking about providing an education here.

Education is not taxed for a reason, in this country it should be a fundamental right.

As a nation vs the global competition we have this is totally a backwards step.

He could put 10p on income tax and raise billions!!! Foolish policy.

Such a misconception about Private School parents. This is an unfair policy.

Fuck. Sake.

If there was even half the attention paid to state education policy as there is to this topic during an election campaign the country would be a better place.

7% of kids are privately educated. 87% of threads in Mumsnet are about private education.

Please can we start giving a shit about the cuts and crisis in the sector that serves the vast majority of our kids.

The endless stream of threads just reinforces my belief that a lot of parents who privately educate their kids do not have a clue.

Rant over.

This.

If (and they won't anyway) private schools close near us it'll be great. There are two private schools in exactly the place where a state school would go to serve the area. As it stands thousands of kids in the area have to travel all over the place for state secondary school. In reality people will just pay the extra, just like they have with all the other % increases. If the school up the fees by 20% it makes the school 'exclusive' if the government does it (although schools can choose to swallow the extra cost) then it's suddenly terrible. Makes no sense. Most private school parents could either afford the difference or find a private school that is 20% less.

They may only be able to go on three holidays next year rather than four! It's outrageous!

2 children at an average school will need to find an extra £7k. Assuming a 40% tax rate, that’s an extra gross income of £12k needed. I’m not sure an employer will just say “oh don’t worry, here’s a £12k pay rise to cover your VAT liability”.

@WestEndWindy

"If there was even half the attention paid to state education policy as there is to this topic during an election campaign the country would be a better place."

PE parents on another thread basically said that they'd never seen state parents complaining about funding issues, why weren't they complaining?

I don't think they quite grasped that state parents, teachers, heads, unions, universities and more have been screaming from the rooftops for over a decade. I

@Another76543

"2 children at an average school will need to find an extra £7k."

Actually assuming the IFS 15% figure, 5.4k a year.

Or, 450 quid a month.

As they are currently spending 3k a month on school fees, I'll again make my claim that I reckon they'll find this out of current discretionary spending.

@Aladdinzane and what do they expect parents to do in state schools? It's not like private schools where they can walk away. They can't vote with their wallets like PE parents. They're stuck with it.

I've ignored the eleventy-million threads on this topic but my goodness ... stop whining about having to pay VAT on a luxury purchase. Just stop.

Put a lid on the 'politics of envy' twaddle. The only envy I've heard is from fee-paying parents who are incensed that some children get a decent education from the state ... one poster suggested that higher earners who send their kids to state schools should pay an additional tax subsidy. Give me strength.

And if I hear one more person claiming that the state system will suddenly be flooded with SEND kids then I will explode. Many private schools completely refuse to take SEND kids, or off-roll them, to make their results look better. It disgusts me.

And there isn't enough rage in me to respond to the repulsive sneering repeatedly directed towards state education.

There is no party for people like us who have worked hard. there is almost no point working hard in this country.

Jeez, did you really mean to say this OP? Shocking comment. Working hard does not automatically mean sufficient funds for a private education. Millions of people in this country work hard and are still struggling to cover the basics. What planet are you on?

My DC are also in state. They are finishing their first year of GCSE courses. They are being taught some subjects by newly qualified teachers with no experience whatsoever (just learning how to manage the kids is a huge learning curve, let alone teaching subject content). They have numerous cover lessons (ie. No teaching at all) every single week. Their school is an outstanding one! Will someone please think of the many more children who are in this situation.

Children move schools and even house all the time. A one-off will not kill these children (likely to not be many), and might even build resilience.

@Funnywonder yes I did as I said my parents were illiterate, they didn’t speak English. They worked bloody hard in manual labour jobs. As the next generation we are professionals. Yes we worked hard, I know my parents worked hard. I know others worked hard.

I grew up in an inner city, around me was plenty of drugs, my school had its fair share of issues.

There was a time that you could make anything of yourself in this country, but now it’s different. I have cousins who are moving to Canada and Dubai, there are more opportunities.

I think people forget that this is just one small island in one big world, we are not competing against ourselves. We are competing against countries like China, Japan, the US, Canada, South Korea. This is an ideological policy pushing kids out of their school’s. I’m not saying my kids will do better than kids in State schools, of course not, but it’s a choice I made.

There are other ways to raise money, more money than something like this. Keir Starmer knows that too,

@WestEndWindy better ways to raise money by the Labour Party. I come from a family of life long Labour voters. I know they can do better than this. I want them in government but for the first time ever in my life I can’t vote for them if this is an example of how they’ll run the country.

I agree. Labour are always saying that they want people to have aspiration, to do better. That’s really not true though. When people do better they try to pull them down again. As soon as anyone does well, there are cries of “but it’s not fair”, “tax them more”. There are many families in your position at private school; families who have gone from living in poverty in just a generation or two through sheer hard work and determination. They then get told “you’re lucky”, “you’re privileged”, “you don’t know what it’s like”. People who were bullied through school for working hard, who had to do school work in the evenings or weekends to try to minimise this, are told they are lucky.

@LaceyLou82

"There is no party for people like us who have worked hard. there is almost no point working hard in this country."

Translated: " I'll stamp my feet till I get what I want."

Everybody works hard. The pandemic showed us that some of the lowest paid jobs are the most vital to the functioning of society. Please stop congratulating yourself on your efforts and expecting society to give you special prizes.

And then we have the bingo card of " Labour are against aspiration" I mean fuck me, how much more blind could you get?

@Another76543 100%!! My dad drove himself to an early grave trying to make every penny count, working ridiculous shifts in a manual job.

It frustrates me that only a generation ago we lived such bad conditions.

I’m not saying others don’t work, but I can’t help I now earn enough to send my kids to private school. Perhaps because I came from such a life I don’t spend so much in other areas, we are not used to luxury living. We don’t live in a big house or drive a new car. These things don’t matter to me.

I wish the Labour Party could see this.

@Aladdinzane they are!!! They are against aspiration as far as I’m concerned I come from an aspiring immigrant family paying a lot of tax.

People on very high earnings will simply not care about fees rising so they won’t be grossly affected. Anyone with three jobs, sacrificing their pension to pay for private school will be screwed. All this plan will do is making private schooling even more elite.

I agree to some extent that those who achieve well do have to work hard and show mental fortitude and resilience. My kids think they work “hard” if they do a bit of revision, but I recall spending HOURS sitting at my desk when it was beautiful weather outside/I had other invitations to get the very top grades.
This is why, certainly in the 1980s, immigrant families placed great emphasis on education as a way out of poverty.

How do you learn to work hard. How do you develop the ability to learn to work hard. How do you develop resilience? A child born to a wealthy family with parents that value education, are well regulated and offer warmth, love and consistent boundaries is starting from a very different platform to a child born into poverty, to parents that don’t understand the value of education, that are not able to parent in a warm, consistent and stable way. If you are constantly in survival mode you can’t learn well. If you are under slept and under nourished you can’t learn well. All of these things are down to luck of the draw in terms of the parents you are born to. Working hard to achieve is going to mean a certain amount of hard work for the former, a hell of a lot more hard work for the latter.

I think the distinction is having supportive parents. People don’t have to have money to be supportive parents who want the best for their children.
I agree though that there are children who don’t have this emotional security and that’s where schools snd teachers have to really step up and show those kids that they can DO it. ! Brains are not the prerogative of the middle classes. Homework clubs/free meals etc can all help.

@Rainydayinlondon you are right supportive parents is important BUT my parents just had to work for us to survive. We were told that an education would be our equaliser, it wasn’t quite but took us a long way from my parent’s life, I say that as a person of colour in this country. But I have seen that education got me some of the way. Now I wanted to do this for my kids to get them further.

There is in relation to society a disproportionate number of South Asian children at private schools, so we feel even more attacked by this policy. We are used to making sacrifices through generations. My Grandparents came here with about £10, then they too worked manual jobs as did my parents.

Labour must see that? We are 1/2 generations on, only one from poverty. We have managed to do it so can others. Just let us make our choices we’ve worked hard for it, don’t penalise us.

"They are against aspiration as far as I’m concerned I come from an aspiring immigrant family paying a lot of tax."

They aren't against aspiration. In fact this is a great example of how the right wing invert the conspiracy. Its the Tories who are against aspiration and make things significantly harder for those from low and middle income backgrounds to succeed, whilst easing the path for their own, and then telling themselves its all down to their own hard work.

@Aladdinzane of course I will never vote Tory, but neither will I ever vote Labour now. I feel attacked. I really do. There would be other ways to raise funds.

@LaceyLou82

Go look at these threads, they are full of PE parents, who tend to be highly paid and wealthy, stating that if this policy comes in, they're going to cut hours, move abroad, give up work entirely, close their businesses etc, and that this will negatively effect the exchequer.

The same things are said when anyone proposes taxing higher earners slightly more, taxing wealth, raising capital gains and on and on.

What are the other ways to raise funds if not through taxation?