To think that a Reform UK government would just be like a Truss on steroids one ?

[Peeppuandpopo]

So all the folk using them as a protest vote against the Tories will just get the usual cutting of benefits, selling off of stuff to huge companies, further privatisation of the NHS, demonisation of anyone ‘different’.
Loads of them are from areas ravaged by Thatcherism (which is basically Trussonomics) but they’ll just get more of the same….

I voted YABU, not because you're wrong about Reform, but because I am sick of all the threads about them. They don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting in, so why worry?

I had a misfortune of checking out their “manifesto” and, judging by the language and complete lack of detail, I can see that they are targeting lower education segment of electorate. Three word sentences, a lot of emotive language and no clear explanation on how they propose to achieve their aims. Yes, it all seems to revolve around privatisation, abolishment of human rights, environmental laws and shrinking of the state. It felt more Trump than Truss.

Well hopefully that's something we'll never see, but as far as I understand it Trussonomics and Thatcherism are examples of trickle down economics, whereas Reform have said they are aiming for 'trickle up' - e.g. putting more money into working class and middle class pockets.

However, many of their policies will benefit big business so that's quite possibly a load of bollocks.

I'm interested to see what those more knowledgeable than me think!

There is a GE board for this

I agree that it will appeal to a certain demographic. Much like the EU referendum propaganda did. All the focus on immigration but none on the economic policies which will be far from worker friendly.
My worry is that somehow the Tories will combine with Reform. The tories want to win at any cost. Most of the headbangers in the Tory party love Thatcher/Truss and Reform’s policies are pretty much like that. Loads of Tories think the current Conservative party is socialist as well which is mad when you think about it.

There was nothing wrong about the argument Truss was making. Her execution was poor.

Supply side reforms are badly needed in this country to grow the economy. We have had 15 years of rampant money printing, made worse to pay for unnecessary lockdowns. Government debt that has ballooned. We don’t build anything, just look at the third runway at Heathrow which never got going while Amsterdam now has five. We don’t produce home grown energy, but borrow cash to pay people’s bills. More than half of the population are net takers while the number of net contributors plummets. State spending has never been higher, nor has the size of the civil service. Taxation is highest in modern times. And what is the result. An economy on life support.

Printing, borrowing money, nimbyism, ever higher taxing and government spending means that the money long ran out to pay for freebies that everyone wants. all of these things simply stoked demand without creating supply.

Truss was right in her diagnosis of the problem. She got it wrong in trying to fix it. It would have taken a lot longer than 2 weeks to do it.

Unfortunately economically illiteracy is rife where Truss as a character is used to throw out the very valid, and really only, credible solution which are all supply side changes.

Name one thing you have seen the Tories enact in the last few years that makes you think they are not socialist.

Not going to happen though, is it?

What does anyone think of the rumours that if Farage wins his seat, and it's the one and only Reform seat, that he will defect to the Tories and stand as their leader.

Then there is a chance of a really neo liberal right wing government in 2029 ( and 5 years away feels a lot shorter time than it did when I was younger).

Scrapping Sure Start is the first thing that comes to mind. I have a whole list though.

Reform hate the Conservatives. I went to a meet the candidates event and the Reform guy could only froth at the mouth about them. He had no policies as far as I could see and was thoroughly unpleasant. I don't think that there's any chance of a coalition with them.

They have very little substance. Yet I’ve heard plenty of people who seem to like their ‘normal’ person approach

@PleaseletitbeSpring

I don't think what people are discussing is a coalition, what they are discussing is that Farage gets the only Reform seat, the Tories lose a huge amount of seats, Farage defects to the Tories and is elected their leader.

Okay so the reform party will not get in. They don't have an MP and they would need to get a majority of the 650 seats to get in.

That's not going to happen.

The conservatives are all bailing out. They know that they have made the country into a complete state and they don't want to be around to sort it out. There is absolutely no way they will be joining up with reform even if reform did manage to get a few seats

The green party and the lib gems will not join with reform.

That is absolutely not going to happen. It's just winding people up.

I think Farage is in for a bit of a shock. He may win Clacton (his constituents will never see him though so more fool them). He may also continue being pushed in our faces by the BBC.

However, it’s not 2016 anymore and people are noticing Brexit, the thing he pushed us into has ruined us. His little ‘one more for the road’ routine won’t work this time. People are clocking the grift.

Beth Rigby played a blinder last night by finally using the ‘B’ word to Sunak. Reminding him and the audience that he was a Brexiter and sharing the statistics on illegal and legal migration, and how significantly they had increased since 2016.

This was Farage’s doing. He’s backed by American libertarians who want to bleed us dry. That’s the long con. The end game.

This was Farage’s doing. He’s backed by American libertarians who want to bleed us dry. That’s the long con. The end game.

Absolutely this.

@marmaladeandpeanutbutter absobloodylutely.

@determinedtomakethiswork I think you’re naive tbh.

Nigel Farage mentioned the NHS yesterday
He suggested a French system, which is often championed on these threads as better than our current one.
The NHs definitely needs an overhaul of some kind , but NF was scant on the actual details of how it might work here.

@ll09sm I’m thinking you don’t understand what socialism really is ? Selling off public utilities is socialist ?

Reform seem to be about reducing immigration, reducing tax , improving public services, reducing regulation, particularly that related to the environment.

I don't see how lower tax can ever go with better public services - we are at the point of having over 10 years of cuts or "efficiency savings". There is no way to squeeze more from less. We have a huge crisis in the NHS and the justice system, pretty bad in teaching, look at the state of our rivers and beaches. People argue that the NHS is wasteful which is probably true, but the fact remains that other western democracies spend a lot more than us on health. Why do people think we can move to a french or German system yet somehow it will cost half of what they spend?

Lower tax may look attractive to poorer people but it only benefits the rich. Poor people can't buy themselves out of state education and healthcare. They need things like sure start and social housing and a decent justice system more than the rich.

Similarly getting rid of regulation may sound attractive but again it only benefits the rich. Poor people are the ones who benefit most from regulations on health and safety in the workplace, time off, paid holiday, pensions, minimum standards on food quality and safety etc. Everyone benefits from clean water and environmental regulations.

Reducing immigration is all very well but we are an ageing population so need working age people. Who is going to work in care homes for example.

Reform will not get in at least this time, but if they do it will be a disaster for anyone in the bottom 80% of income.

@PrincessTeaSet

Reform are typical populists, they offer simplistic explanations and solutions for large problems, whilst pandering to people's prejudices.

To add, the reason we can't seem to get anything done in this country is corruption. We simply cannot deliver any big project because half the money is siphoned off into the pockets of politicians mates through lucrative contracts that don't deliver. It's embarrassing that we can't have high speed rail when other countries can. COVID made this really obvious with the handing of money for PPE to companies who had nothing to do with PPE but the problem is the same in other areas.

We need to stop having leaders who have only risen to the top because they attended elite schools and know (are paid by) extremely rich people, and have leaders who are genuinely good at the job.

It may be his plan, but it wouldn’t happen. Look at his track record- he’s not capable of building and maintaining good enough relationships to lead for more than five minutes. If he got to the point where he was party leader, it’d all blow up pretty quickly.