Can a 5 year old be a bully

[Saycheeseburgers]

I’m so worried that my 5 year old is a bully. He’s always been shy, reserved, but when he’s confident in the situation, he’s quite boisterous and lady (he has 2 older brothers).

I’ve been worrying about him at school as there’s been a few mentions from him about fighting and once or twice I’ve been pulled aside and told he’s fought with other boys (he’s not the instigator necessarily but not the victim either, sounds like they’re as bad as each other in the situations the teacher has told me about).

I had a chat with his teacher this morning as he’s strayed away from all of the nice boys he was friends with in nursery (they’re in the same class) and is always talking about two boys who he didn’t know before reception, and it sounds like they don’t play nicely together.

The teacher said the three boys are always together at break times and they wind up a boy from one of the other classes - I don’t know who. The teacher said it’s not one boy worse than the others, it’s a collective between the 3 of them. So I’m now so upset that he’s a bully.

My DS has said a few times that the 2 boys “annoy him”, so I’m often telling him to just play with others. He had a lovely firm friend from nursery who’s in the same class and a couple of other boys he seemed to like playing with, but although I’ve instigated a few play dates and he’s played well at them, he’s apparently drawn to these other 2 boys. I asked his teacher to please please keep encouraging other friendships, and she said they’re really trying but that the 3 boys are so drawn to each other.

My DS absolutely hates being told off or having serious chats, so DH and I are both going to sit him down and try and get to the bottom of it after school, but I’m so disappointed and gutted that he’s part of this little gang who by the sounds of it are picking on some other poor boy.

Yes 5 year olds can be bullies, but he's also still very little and you're doing the right thing by talking to him first. However, if it keeps happening, there needs to be consequences for his behaviour as he needs to know bullying is never okay.

I’m really trying to think about what consequence it needs to be as really I believe it needs to be immediate. I could suggest his teacher keeps him in from playtime, although I don’t think they do that in reception. I could say no TV after school but I’m not convinced it’s going to be effective as it’ll be so far removed from the incidences themselves.

Yes they can. Two neighbour kids have shown signs of being bullies from age 5 and it's got worse now they're 8/9. However in both cases they are witnessing and experiencing bullying at home either by parents or siblings. How do your older DC treat their little brother? As he may be acting out how he is treated by bigger / stronger kids.

I was bullied pretty badly when I was 5 (by other 5 year olds). Still remember it now, 30 years later. So yes they can be bullies.

However, the bullies all turned out fairly normally in later school years and life. So I don’t think it’s anything to be terribly concerned about. Other than making sure they know it’s wrong and have consequences etc.

Some kids are desperate to be in control so show bully type behaviour

My middle son has ADHD and I think he bullies my youngest. He winds him up just for a reaction. We discipline him all the time, he never gets away with it, but it doesn’t stop. My 5 year old has started doing it back, but to be honest a lot of it I do put down to typical sibling behaviour - repeating what the other is saying etc. It’s hard to know what is typical sibling behaviour because I know my sisters used to wind me up for the sake of it.

I think my DS is insecure and has been since he was tiny, he was always very clingy, still unsure in new situations where he doesn’t know anyone. So this does make sense, the power thing.

Dd's bully started bullying her at age 5, so it's possible.

I think they can bully at that age, some kids just have that dominant personality and want to be in charge. I think I’d try and channel that type of behaviour into something else. I have two boys and at home we are very gentle I won’t ever tolerate play fighting, bashing toys, scaring birds and animals I think these types of behaviours encourage those bully instincts in some children. I’m lucky my oldest is very calm and kind and my youngest just copies him. Try sending him to some outside of school clubs like Scouts and something so he meets other children with different personalities?

He'll grow out of it. Try and praise more gentle behaviour when he's playing.

I'm not so sure about this as I've witnessed most boys in ds's class who constantly wind each other up making silly remarks at pick ups and birthday parties which would be classed as bullying and I do correct them. Last year they were obsessed with the word poo calling each other poo. My ds was an only child until now and typical lockdown baby so wasn't really exposed to rough and tumble until nursery or nor does he come from a household where there is any abuse. Both husband and i are calm considerate people who try to teach the right things. I think my ds somehow finds it amusing and thinks that's the normal way to communicate by winding each other up. I'm also hoping he grows out of it. Btw I've also noticed girls like this as well so it's more of an age thing?

Of course they can. And everyone hates to be told off. But you are doing the right thing correcting him.

Could it be he's drawn to the two boys as a way of avoiding them targeting him?

Having never witnessed them together (I will not be encouraging play dates!) and DH saw them all at a party recently, it’s a funny situation as I don’t think DS is particularly fussed on one of the other two, I think he does quite like the other one but at parties he’ll play with loads of different DC.

The one he’s not fussed on has an older sibling with SEN who has annoyed DS at parties before (following him, poking him etc) and so I can see that the other little boy probably has this sort of behaviour happen to him at home, so you can see why it’s carrying on at school. But I just don’t understand why DS is in on it, as he isn’t fussed on that boy, only the other. The other 2 do seem to be big mates though and I think the parents are friends, so I suppose that might be how it’s come about.

When DS is with younger cousins for example, he’s very kind and often lets them beat him at games and races (whereas he has a tantrum is he loses to his older brothers!). So I don’t see that behaviour outside of school, he’s hot headed though so I can definitely imagine him lashing out at someone who pushes him first, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the situation. Without knowing who the other child is, it’s hard to say the reasons behind it.

I definitely don’t think DS has a dominant personality, if anything he’s the shyer type. Our house is very loud and boisterous though, I do feel especially my middle and younger DS’ can be feral when they’re together (not 1-2-1, they’re pretty great then), in all the ways you describe @LittleMG . I prefer to let them run off steam at home (my middle DS especially needs this) so if they’re playing boisterously I leave them to it.

I don’t THINK so. I suspect he thinks one of the two is hilarious and wants to be his friend.

My son was in reception when his classmates started with him. Name calling, hitting, nipping and taking his glasses off then stomping on them. The worst of it was when, knowing how much he loved building Lego, they would pretend to be friendly and ask to see his 'build', so he would show them and then they would break it up in front of him. So, yes, 5 year olds can be bullies. My 5 year old told me one night he didn't want to wake up in the morning. He never want back to that place again.

@sandorschicken thats horrendous. I can’t imagine how children of that age could be so calculating. I will say my DS isn’t calculating at all, my middle with ADHD I suspect also has ODD and I really see the difference in their personalities, in that middle DS will deliberately try to upset and annoy us and his brothers. DS3 just isn’t like that, he has full blown meltdowns so isn’t an easy child but he isn’t defiant and argumentative.

That was the most surprising thing - how calculating they were for such small children. Before my experience I just wouldn't have thought it possible. Now, the school my son was in was useless at best and neglectful at worst and the fact that you are trying to tackle this early doors is a good thing and hopefully teaching staff who can aid you in that.

5 year olds are not toddlers. They are pretty smart. They can perfectly sense when parents are not looking.

Children are pretty horrible to each other so have a word but I wouldn't fret overly about this. He'll have a new group of friends in a couple of weeks anyway,

If he doesn’t like being told off he’ll have to improve on his behaviour. It’s up to you to be consistent on how you deal with it - the school can only do so much. If you’re finding excuses for him he’s not going to stop. There’s strength in numbers - even at 5 years old - if your son was the child being wound up by three other boys would you be happy?

I think all of us very lovely, kind, well intended parents can be raising that bully. And often times, a bully is saying, "I need to be seen and heard". It's a reaction and response, often but not always.
So yes of course 5 year olds can be bullies.
It can be a lot of fun following the motley crew and get in on the shenanigans. Maybe your DS is craving some attention and also, it's fun- bad fun- but it's fun (because we can feel a bit left to it and a bit lost in the gang at home). He's not thinking. He's just doing, because he's 5. But there are consequences to his behaviour. Cause and effect is a good approach when talking to your son. If you do A to that child, then B happens (this is what that child feels and this is what happens to you- time out or whatever the teacher imposes). This also allows him to navigate his own empathy. How would he feel if he were on the receiving end of bullying? This is a perfect time to teach him to tap into his empathetic self.

School can help support.
But EVERYTHING starts at home and with our parenting and how we speak with our children.

My unasked for advice is to quiet down the house. A boisterous household is all fine and dandy but it perpetuates dominating behaviour. The kids will be fighting to have their voices heard.
I grew up the youngest of 3. My mother left us to it to be boisterous. The reality was that my middle brother and I were actually calm kids trying to keep our heads above water because our eldest brother was boisterous, physical, dominant, and unchecked. We had to swim upstream, emotionally, our entire childhoods and it was exhausting. Set some boundaries at home, OP. Make sure your children learn to have a voice among each other, not a dominant voice, but a heard voice. I say this as a parent who really needed to work on this myself. I have two strong characters and one very docile child on the spectrum. I've spent two decades teaching myself (never mind the kids!) how to set boundaries, instill calm and kindness in the household. Make home calm and your kids will respond well to that. Ok. Lecture over. 😆

I agree that "boisterousness" should be clamped down at home. It's not the inevitable consequence of having boys, and it perpetuates the idea that violence and dominance are the only ways that boys can interact with other children.

yes they can ,I had some mild bullying in nursery. Just one girl who would come along to whatever toy I had and grab it from me with a sneer on her face, it seemed malicious and she made a beeline for me always.

I had some (short lived) bullying in primary one too which is age 4/5 in Scotland.

It’s good that you recognise and are willing to admit there might be a problem though, there needs to be more parents like you. Could you read books to him about feelings and kindness and friendships and stories with anti-bullying messages and casually discuss?

My friends daughters are 13 and 14 and she can’t see it but when her kids were a bit younger I observed her older daughters behaviour with other kids when we’ve had large picnics etc and I’ve literally witnessed her bullying younger children - I obviously stepped in.

So when she tells me teachers are saying her kids are bullying people and she doesn’t believe it I just raise my eyebrows! There was one incident her younger kid was deliberately mispronouncing what I think was an Asian child’s name, which made me very comfortable and the teacher had complained to her and again she defended her child.

Yes. This, exactly. Anyone who’s spent any time helping in reception knows this - some five year olds are very skilled at upsetting other children and appearing innocent. Sad, but true.