Can a 5 year old be a bully

[Saycheeseburgers]

I’m so worried that my 5 year old is a bully. He’s always been shy, reserved, but when he’s confident in the situation, he’s quite boisterous and lady (he has 2 older brothers).

I’ve been worrying about him at school as there’s been a few mentions from him about fighting and once or twice I’ve been pulled aside and told he’s fought with other boys (he’s not the instigator necessarily but not the victim either, sounds like they’re as bad as each other in the situations the teacher has told me about).

I had a chat with his teacher this morning as he’s strayed away from all of the nice boys he was friends with in nursery (they’re in the same class) and is always talking about two boys who he didn’t know before reception, and it sounds like they don’t play nicely together.

The teacher said the three boys are always together at break times and they wind up a boy from one of the other classes - I don’t know who. The teacher said it’s not one boy worse than the others, it’s a collective between the 3 of them. So I’m now so upset that he’s a bully.

My DS has said a few times that the 2 boys “annoy him”, so I’m often telling him to just play with others. He had a lovely firm friend from nursery who’s in the same class and a couple of other boys he seemed to like playing with, but although I’ve instigated a few play dates and he’s played well at them, he’s apparently drawn to these other 2 boys. I asked his teacher to please please keep encouraging other friendships, and she said they’re really trying but that the 3 boys are so drawn to each other.

My DS absolutely hates being told off or having serious chats, so DH and I are both going to sit him down and try and get to the bottom of it after school, but I’m so disappointed and gutted that he’s part of this little gang who by the sounds of it are picking on some other poor boy.

I was hoping for this as he’s been much less set on certain friends in the past (unlike DS1 and 2) and tends to just play with whoever, so I didn’t think I’d be having these problems with DS3. But he has been set on these two boys for a while now, every day when he says who he’s played with, it’s those two.

Yeah I agree with pp who said kids can be sly about it. I used to do one-to-one work with Looked After kids and I remember one boy aged about 6. He was absolutely tiny and had these big glasses and people thought he was this cute owl but he was horrid to some kids.

I had reached into my bag for something and just as I was straightening up I saw him mouth something like “fatty” to a girl who was larger than most. She looked so sad.

I immediately gave him into trouble and reported it to his foster carer and teacher. I could see it was something that probably happened a lot and he seemed so taken aback that I had pulled him up on it as other adults were just so taken by the fact he was a child in care and they saw him as small and cute etc

Work hard on kindness with him. Remind him how he feels when his brother winds him up and ask him if he thinks its kind to make someone else feel that way
Reinforce how you know he is a lovely boy with a kind heart and how you know he knows its right to be kind to everyone and make sure no one is being unkind in front of him... teach him to be a superhero defending others.
You can definitely do a lot with psychology and positive reinforcement - dar more so so than through punishment.

Thank you. Both my younger two DS’ are very physical. DS3 more so actually, he’s a strong, sporty little boy with a physique that doesn’t match his shy and clingy personality! But at home the 2 are very much in it together. There are plenty of quiet moments too as DS3 loves drawing and colouring, and DS2 likes Lego and reading. But if I were to completely stop any boisterous play, I’d be concerned about where it would come out otherwise. It’s not physical fighting boisterous play, it’s more running around pretending to be XYZ, loudly, or playing hide and seek tag, that sort of thing. They’re not really into play fighting.

I suspect it’s as you describe though - being in on the motley crew, it’s “fun”. Maybe the other child gives it back too, I have no idea, it depends who it is. But if they are, that makes it even more “fun” doesn’t it. I will tap into all these hypothetical situations though, he has complained on occasion that the 2 boys are annoying him, and he tells, so I guess I need to keep hitting home how he felt then, so how he mustn’t do it to others.

@chocolatemademefat where in my post am I making excuses?

I think DC can be a bully at age 5 or even 4. There was a 4 year old bully at my nieces preschool. He used to bite other children and hit them with toys. The teacher was always sending notes home saying my niece had been hit by a child with a toy. My sister knew who it was. Anyway this little bully was being bullied at home by his older brother who was 7 so he probably modelled his behaviour from his older brother. He got put in the other class when they started school.

Honestly you seem to be doing all the right things but I would model empathy to him around the little boys they are being mean to . Along the lines of poor Joe. Imagine how you would feel if 3 boys were teasing you a lot: how sad you'd be etc. I think asking them to out themselves in the other shoes resonates in a way that other things don't.

"My middle son has ADHD and I think he bullies my youngest. He winds him up just for a reaction."

That's what's at the root of the problem.

Sorry, but I don’t agree with the nicely, nicely approach when it comes to things like this. It is absolutely unacceptable for this sort of behaviour at that age, especially at school. No gentle conversations or trying to get to the bottom of things, just a very strong “It is absolutely not acceptable for you to behave like that”. Unequivocally set the expectation of what behaviour you expect. I would be appalled if one of my DC behaved like that and they’d blooming well know about it (and I’m all for natural consequences/gentle parenting!).

Your child's behaviour shouldn’t be dependent on what children he’s hanging around with. It’s not up to other children to moderate your child’s behaviour. I’d fully expect a 5 year old to know what is “good” and “bad” behaviour. It could just be how your post is worded, but there seems to be lots of handwringing without getting to the actual problem. So what if he doesn’t like getting told off or having serious chats? You’re concerned that he’s part of a gang that’s picking on another boy and you’re going to sit down and have a nice, friendly chat about it? No. He doesn’t get to do that to someone else and that little boy shouldn’t be made miserable because you’re taking your time getting your child to behave properly because he doesn’t like being told off.

It’s not up to school to encourage nice friendships, it’s up to you to make sure your child is correctly prepared to go school without picking on the other kids.

There is no cure for ADHD unfortunately.

If it was this simple though, surely there would be no bullies? I think you’d be surprised as to which kind of children from which kind of families can be bullies. If only sitting our children down and saying xyz is unacceptable every time they did something wrong was all it took. Parenting isn’t about laying down the law in that way, it’s about TEACHING. I will of course be telling my son he cannot be unkind, but I need to actually give him the tools (and desire) to not be part of whatever this little gang is.

To quote my son’s nursery report, “DS3 has a good group of friends and knows the importance of being a good friend”. So, actually, I think that shows he did go to school with the right tools, doesn’t it? And along the way something has happened. No one is to blame as the teacher made it clear it’s all 3 boys, rather than one, and I’ve made that clear in my post. But the fact is something is drawing my son to these boys and this situation and it’s very difficult as a parent to work out how to deal with that, when I’m not there to witness it.

I don’t actually know anything about the situation with the other child, nor who it is, so I can’t actually name them to my son. I obviously will be trying to get to the bottom of it.

I think "Bullying" at this age is too strong a word at this age . Children will see where they are at a particular situation .Often DC with older siblings will be more able to push for what they want.Younger shyer DC will be left behind if not careful . You sound as though you are doing everything right here .As an retired Nursery School Teacher we used to guide the children to be kind to each other .Often need to remind them though!

Pleased to update this thread that after a proper conversation with DS3’s teacher, I’d gotten completely the wrong end of the stick. It’s 4 boys all playing together, all of whom go over the top and don’t know when to stop. So no bullying or targeting, they just all need to learn to play a bit calmer (also not a good friendship match I feel, so I am trying and failing to encourage DS3 towards other friends).

Omg that broke my heart! I hope he is okay now!!!

@ignoranceisbliss15

He's doing good now thank you! He started at Secondary school last September, knowing that those who tormented him would be going to the same school again meant that we applied for a school in the next town which was an excellent decision as he's doing so well!

I couldn't run the risk of him coming across those children again after 'healing' (I hate that term!) from being away from them at the primary school I moved him to!

@ignoranceisbliss15 that's so sad. Did he get on okay at the new primary school you moved him to? Xx

There was a kid in my sons class who bullied everyone, starting in reception.

By year 1 his behaviour was absolutely atrocious, my son would be so stressed about it and the teacher at first dismissed it as "all as bad as each other" this boy had a little tag a long too, he would punch girls in the face, break people's things, my son told me whenever they sat down for lunch he would kick him off the seat and one day he said the pair of then sat and were talking about ways they could kill him "pull his eyes out and watch him bleed to death" I went off it, and finally it was addressed but still not enough. He would avoid my son but started on others, and it only came to a head and the boy expelled after holding a knife to someones throat in the dining hall! The boy was 6!

I sometimes wonder what became of him, as its really scary what he was potentially being exposed to at home and he'll now be a teenager.