To think the public have the society they deserve

[GoodnightAdeline]

Just read yet another post in our town mums’ Facebook group about the ‘lunchbox letter’. In essence a local primary has written to parents asking them to stop putting sweets and other garbage in their kids’ lunch boxes and all hell has broken loose. ‘How dare they tell my what to feed my child’ ‘tell them to fuck off’ ‘we’ll give the kids an eating disorder’ ‘my kid will only eat cheese strings and cola bottles, do they want her to starve’ etc

It was the same with the ‘your child is overweight’ letters, the ‘please send them in with water not Prime’ letters, the ‘please watch them as they cross the road after school because we had a near miss the other day and are getting complaints’ letters.

After a million such posts with defensive, vitriolic replies I’m beginning to think, why bother improving the NHS/dentistry etc? Why bother helping people who won’t help themselves.

YES I KNOW I’M BEING UNREASONABLE but the above mindset just seems so prevalent it depresses me to unreasonableness!

Yanbu in the slightest
So few parents support school policies.

Yes captain anecdotally from teacher family members that’s true.

Teacher observations about the majority (not all). Children not raised. Early nursery care and c parents wanting to be friend not parent means children given no grounding in how to behave. Odd misplaced entitled confidence in the teens. Aggressive about defending their “rights” “you can’t speak to me like that” is a common refrain - but all one way - they don’t see that they have any responsibilities back.

Parents unquestioningly and aggressively defend their child against teacher. First question from them is almost always “who else was involved and what’s happening to them?”

Should you have the right as a parent to fail to meet your child's nutritional needs? Is that a choice you should be allowed to make for a child? We have mountains of evidence now that an ultra-processed diet is linked with obesity, cancer and early death, among many other things. Should it be OK for parents to do that to their children? We don't tolerate other forms of neglect and abuse.

Children have a right to have their basic needs met, and it's right that society should step in when parents are failing in their responsibilities. Whether that should be schools or another service is a different discussion.

I guess society is made up of people who instinctively know the right things to do regarding their children and the others are those that, apparently, don’t. The ones who do may feel irritated or even patronised that such obvious things are being pointed out to them and the others don’t give a tiny shite anyway. Wasn’t it ever thus?

I do wonder about that, school has the same policy, no sweets or crisps, only milk or water. I am delighted with it because it makes it easier for me to make a healthy packed lunch without any whinging from DD.

DD’s friends mum is extremely lovely and clearly loves her DD very much but she is constantly giving her sweets and chocolates (unfortunately she’s also very generous and Dd is often handed a ridiculous amount of chocolate). Her DD is clearly overweight and her mum knows this but seems to just have a blind spot over the sweet stuff. She’s an intelligent, funny woman, she’s definitely one of my favourite mum friends.

I think it’s an emotional thing, the father isn’t as engaged as he should be (I mean literally sleeping till the afternoon on weekends after staying up late to avoid his family) and it’s often hard for her to get around without his help as she has a baby as well, lives in an apartment and doesn’t have a car so they are often stuck at home. I think for some it’s almost making up for something else. So I don’t think it’s always straightforward.

Because I don’t think it sounds sensible, at all. And initiatives like these are just pointless , rarely actually produce positive results, and are usually aimed at blaming women for something.

I’m not defensive, I just talk that way on MN. Like I say my kids don’t have sweets in their packed lunches, both are a healthy weight and and play active sports, but I still see the at the idea of a load of busybodies (yes they are) trying to patronise other people. I won’t be convinced it’s anything other to feel superior rather than actually giving a shit about other people’s kids.

im not quite sure why you’re telling me this?? Did you think I didn’t know nutritional food is good for children?

Should you have the right as a parent to fail to meet your child's nutritional needs? Is that a choice you should be allowed to make for a child?*

If we are looking at this objectively - there is no state ordered way to raise your children. Thank god. So actually people can, if they want, raise their kids on Haribo Tangfastics.

However, I suspect very few people actually do that. To assume people give their kids sweets because they’re bad or lazy is a really boring and incorrect trope. There are many barriers to feeding children nutritional food. Cost being one. A massive bag of crisps is cheaper than 4 apples FFS. Why would people not spend their time actually targeting those who can make a difference rather than parents who are perhaps buying the most filling food for their kids?

What I think most people do do is feed their kids a balanced diet - so fruit/veg/protein + treats such as crisps, chocolate, sweets etc. I certainly do. The pearl clutchers talking about abuse with regard to this are the ones whose Kids will have eating disorders IMO - it’s very easy to give kids a complex over food and personally I don’t assign “this is a BAD thing to eat you’ll get FAT and have CANCER” to food because, well, I’m not insane.

Thanks for providing a pitch perfect illustration of the OPs point.
You have over simplified the original point (they did not say the NHS was in crisis coz of lunchboxes), there is nothing naive about the idea that obesity presents an existential threat to the NHS. Reputable research supports this. OP does not need your sympathy. You are being sarcastic because you're on the defensive. Probably because your kids are overweight and deep down you know its your responsibility and you want to reassure yourself the NHS will help them in due course.
And the busy bodies you deride are professionals, who are trying to address this problem.
But you crack on....

I was going to say this, everyone wants harmony, a village and the benefits of working together, a good economy ect..but don't want to pay for it, just benefit..but when everyone is out for themselves the resources get quite sparse.

But tbf the divisive way of things is really pushed onto us. I randomly get heated over certain topics and have no idea where it came from..but then 24 hours a day we are being exposed to negativity, through media, life around us. So i don't blame parents or individuals, i blame modern society that we are all scrambling to somehow fit in when quite frankly its impossible. Whatever you do will be wrong 😂

Children getting obese is because they eat too much not from eating crisps and chocolate it's long term over eating messes up their metabolism, or maybe they have an underlying problem but it isn't the norm none of my kids friends are obese

i agree. Being an MP is a hard job. It doesn’t pay well compared to what people intelligent, skilled people could get in the private sector. It’s a highly insecure job. And we the public constantly hate on them, pile on abuse and tell them they are shit and corrupt.

Is it any wonder that the bright, capable people we need to lead the country are not becoming MPs and instead going into parliamentary has become a hobby for rich kids and a home for ideologues of the right and Left. If we can’t attract high caliber people to run our country, we absolutely do have the society we deserve.

It does feel like that sometimes and in some towns. I lived abroad for a few years and every time I came home I was struck by how UNCOUTH the UK is compared with where I was living. I think we are a tolerant nation but that has been our downfall. Bring back shame! Just a bit of it.
People should be embarrassed to swear loudly, shout at people, walk about in town shirtless or in pyjamas or underwear. Drop litter, shoplift.
That said, most people are decent. They’re just not so visible.

Honestly i'm all for healthier eating and not packing junk in school lunches, but let's have some common sense here. When "offensive" items become home baked pasties or fruit yogurts... then yes, they can eff right off.

Also children are fat because parents don't let them play outside anymore.

t I still see the at the idea of a load of busybodies (yes they are) trying to patronise other people. I won’t be convinced it’s anything other to feel superior rather than actually giving a shit about other people’s kids.

Not true, there are 100’s or kids in most schools, there has to be a basic rule - kids eating sweets and sugary things at lunch time are a nightmare in the afternoons - you should see it for yourself.

Try teaching 30 kids when 15 have a sugar rush!! Not pleasant.

we all laugh at Aunty sending the kids back full of sugar, imagine that x 10?

Feed your kids as much crap as you want, but your ultimate game here is to have them ready to learn, to sit and listen - to leave school with decent grades and able to concentrate.

If there were enough social workers (there are not), every single one of those identifiable I would report to social services. Many of them have probably made comments as idle threats though, I hope.

So true. One of my childhood friends is an absolute menace and is the kind of parent that I found a complete PITA when I worked in schools

She has money to buy the kids iPhones but when the primary schools asks for a contribution to school trips, suggested donation is £5-£10 she doesn’t pay a penny but yet complains about the quality of the trips. She backed her year 3 kid when she slapped a teacher. She said it was wrong yeah but she also made a ton of excuses.

She’s constantly challenging her older kids teachers when they’ve given her kids detentions. She laughs when her teens tell her a story about being cheeky to teachers and has the nerve to share it with me like it’s a cute story.

I’m all for kids standing up for themselves if they’re being mistreated and adults are being out of line but I don’t see this as what’s happening here. Her kids know whatever they do they can get away with it as she will always back them. She even claims she “knows when they’re lying” hence if a teacher says something opposite to what her kid is saying she tends to lean towards believing her child. But having worked in schools some of the stories her kids are saying just don’t make sense. I try and tell her that and she just sticks to her guns. Then she’ll email teachers to complain about this and that and expect a response the same day. I always remind her they are busy teaching, marking papers and preparing lessons and not always checking emails from parents all the time!

If there were enough social workers (there are not), every single one of those identifiable I would report to social services. Many of them have probably made comments as idle threats though, I hope.

Yeah, social workers must really have no more important thing to do.

Same

Yanbu OP. Trouble is no,one respects the professionals these days, because every Tom,Dick and Harry is an armchair expert 🤦‍♀️ So of course they know far more than the teacher/ nurse/doctor. After all they read something on social media so it must be true! Hence the professionals being told they are "busybodies" and "controlling" when they try to make a difference to the public health.
And I'm.amazed that anyone wouldn't be able to make the link between lunch boxes full of sugary shit and long term poor health outcomes.

They can have it at home then, surely?

I’m not denying obesity is a problem - but teachers are not public health professionals and these letters are pointless, often patronising and if they had a scrap of knowledge about human behaviour, they’d know shaming parents into something rarely works.

The obesity issue does not have a blanket solution doesn’t lie with targeting parents packing a kids lunchbox.

OP does not need your sympathy.

Good because I wasn’t giving it?

You are being sarcastic because you're on the defensive.

I wasn’t being sarcastic at all

Probably because your kids are overweight and deep down you know its your responsibility and you want to reassure yourself the NHS will help them in due course.
its really weird thaw you want my kids to be overweight. I hate to break it to you but they’re far from it - they’re both skinny, have a balanced diet, very healthy appetites and both partake in active sports. I just don’t like these ineffective methods that do absolutely nothing but piss a load of parents off but tick a “Wr did something about it” box.

Trouble is no,one respects the professionals these days, because every Tom,Dick and Harry is an armchair expert 🤦‍♀️ So of course they know far more than the teacher/ nurse/doctor. After all they read something on social media so it must be true!

The "social media" and "google" made all sorts of information widely available to the masses. We no longer need to rely on "professional" word and a sole unquestionable truth. After all, professionals are only human. They don't know everything, they make mistakes, etc. And whatever they studied some decades ago may no longer be relevant.
As an example, I asked my GP's advice about some vitamin supplements i wanted to buy. She only shrugged and said "I'm not a nutritionist. Ask whoever gave you that list."
So much for professional opinion.

This situation is like so many - because a minority of idiots abuse the freedom to choose, everyone is subject to a crackdown.

Most parents pack a fairly sensible lunch with the occasional treat here and there to help their child through the school day.

Blame the ignorant / feckless parents that don’t adequately nourish their kids for having choice removed, not teachers, who see the consequences of bad food choices on behaviour in their classrooms.

I don’t think it’s showing kids a healthy attitude to label certain foods as “forbidden” at certain times. On packed lunch days my kids get crisps or chocolate along with other healthy stuff. I’d never dream of telling them it’s only something to be had at home.

some people really don’t realise they’re handing their kid a one way ticket to an eating disorder unfortunately, and language/boundaries/attitudes about food are a big contributing factor.

We have the society we create, yes.