If anyone works in the nhs please can you shed any light on this holiday allowance?

[nalzer]

I want to know if my ex (Dd’s) dad is telling me the truth.

He says if he doesn’t use his holiday allowance then he doesn’t get to roll it over or get paid for it. Surely you get paid for holiday if you don’t take it?? That’s what’s always happened in my work but I work in the private sector in finance.

He is basically saying he hasn’t been able to take the leave and now will lose it and not be paid for it either. Is this right? He is a fellow if that makes a difference.

Yep, I have one colleague who seems very proud he doesn’t use his holiday. Work is his life. It’s a bit tragic. But then my line manager is really difficult about signing off leave. I realised the other day I’ve not had a full week since last August and even then I wasn’t allowed the week I wanted. Shockingly I have a fortnight this year in the summer and I cannot wait!

he has a holiday allowance of 28 days but claims he’s not taken any

Then he's a monumental idiot. It's hard to understand how someone could be that stupid.

He would never have been able to carry over anywhere near 28days at any employer I've ever worked for, whether in the public or private sector. (And no, none of them would have paid it either!)

At our Trust, they haven’t let us carry any over this year, because we’re up financial shit creek, our paddle has been stolen by the Tories and NHSE are monitoring our spending.

So if he’s at a Trust like mine, if he didn’t manage to take all his leave then it’s tough, he loses it.

And I can imagine, as a Fellow, he hasn’t been able to use it all because of staffing issues.

Drs can get paid for unused leave if can show have been denied ability to take it cos of staffing which is v common especially when rotating often

Doesn't make sense to though as only paid for an 8h day despite our normal day shift being 10h

@Hopefulbride18 he said he joined the trust last July on a 12 month contract. Could this be a lie?!

We’ve got a Consultant at our Trust who has somehow managed to carry over about 2 years worth of leave - due to covid and staffing issues etc, he hasn’t been able to take his leave. Now he’s facing the prospect of losing it and not getting paid for it.

It does happen.

My London trust this year I wasn't even able to carry over 2 hours.

Only time we were paid for unused leave was in covid when they wanted us to work instead of use leave!

We have a buy back - max of 37-5 hrs
And can carry over 37-5 if arranged in advance
If gets to 3/12 prior to year end then it's use it or lose it if not discussed

Would it be different for drs as their jobs tend to start in august?

No, his leave will be pro-rata’d depending on how many full months he’s worked.

12 month contract could be right, but what’s happening at the the end of it? And why can’t he take some of it now?

That would sound quite possible to me for a doctor.

I’ve been an NHS manager for years and ‘use it or lose it’ is definitely the case.

5 days may be carried over in ‘exceptional circumstances’ only in my Trust and there would need to be a compelling reason.

Those are exceptional circumstances though - if something has literally prevented him from taking his leave (as in your example), he would be able to discuss it with his manager/union and likely get some/all rolled over or paid (which is what your consultant should do - he'd have a strong case to argue in tribunal, and the union should support him).

Preventing an employee from taking their statutory minimum leave, and then removing that leave, is against employment law. It is not defensible in any way.

Only if their Trust can afford it. Mine certainly can’t 😭

In theory Our NHS Trust allows a maximum of 5 days to be carried over. If you don't use it you loose it.

After huge problems with accumulated leave during covid the message now is unless there are exceptional circumstances you must use the leave within the leave year.

No you take it within that financial year or you lose it, what’s wrong with that unless they didn’t let you actually take the leave? (Or couldn’t because on maternity leave etc in which case you can usually carry it over) Not sure if rules different for Drs

Use or lose in our trust and can only carry 5 days over

He’d only be able to carry a certain amount over. And only if his Trust can afford to let him

I don’t think people realise the financial impact carrying leave over has, especially on Trusts how are already struggling to balance their books

Not being able to afford it doesn't exempt the trust from complying with employment law. Anyone who has been prevented from taking leave, and then had the leave removed would have a case to take them to tribunal. It's illegal if you have not been allowed to use your allowance.

Again - if he has been prevented from taking his statutory minimum leave (20 days), this is illegal and he'd have every right to take them to tribunal. "We can't afford it" is not an adequate defence.

It’s use it or loose it in my trust, however I’ve never had a manager that would have allowed someone to have no annual leave with hassling them about it for a year!

Thanks everyone. I just don’t know whether anything he tells me is the truth anymore. He hasn’t taken one day off to be with dc at all and I have had to cope with it all (I also work long hours). He does have form for not taking leave but ffs he has a child, surely you’d WANT to spend some of it with them

If someone hasn't taken any annual leave at all, it is also a management failure. Good managers should proactively manage planned absence.

Our policy is use it or lose it, you can carry-over max 5 days, but they have to be used by end March (Jan-Dec leave year).

Where a staff member has genuinely not taken leave because of operational difficulties, rather than just not booking it until the last minute, I do exceptionally agree for a few extra to be carried over. I also remind staff regularly to get it booked.