To wonder how we ever did 5 days a week in an office?

[OptimismvsRealism]

I work hard and love my job (legal). Spent a day in the office today for the first time in months and honestly feel sick. The people flu! I couldn't go back. All those blokes in the City saying WFH was an "aberration" are deluded.

I get that some people love it and there's enough diversity in this world for everyone to find their niche but Oh My God am I glad I don't have to do the daily traipse any more.

Not all of us. I'm 62, work fulltime from the office. Could do hybrid & wfh occasionally but hate it.

That's not a valid argument. Technology means that should not be an issue.

Life is so much nicer working hybrid. I'd never go back.

@OptimismvsRealism - you're obviously not a doctor or a teacher or a shop worker... finding a job is quite difficult currently

Dh and I worked from home during covid.

I teach but was classed as vulnerable so I worked 100% from home during lockdowns. I did get masses of work done and was genuinely very efficient. I worked long hours from a desk at home. I couldn't do my normal every day job but then it was covid so my normal day to day job had changed massively anyway.

However, I really missed the face to face interaction, not just of pupils, but my colleagues. I didn't think I would so much tbh. We tried to have a more relaxed online meeting each week but it wasn't the same. The 'team' feeling was missing with everyone spread around - the majority were in school but had to be apart, no staffroom, etc,

Dh hated it. He is really social and thrives from being in the office surrounded by his staff. Whilst he could get his head down and work, he just wasn't happy doing so.

They have a lot of younger staff working up the ranks and they benefit massively from working with others, shadowing, being mentored, and then the informal interaction each day. This just wasn't possible during covid lockdowns - the younger staff missed so much valuable informal and indirect mentoring and training.

From his department almost all chose to return full time in the office very quickly. Only a very small number now work from home, part time. Most wanted to return. 🤷‍♀️

The thing we found was that it meant that the difference between work and home were even more blurred than normal. Whilst we both work out of hours at home, it was so much harder to not be in work mode. Lunchtimes getting skipped, working later. Weekends merging into week days, etc.

I think we both need the opportunity to get out of the house most days and speak with others, even if it's just to have a chat over lunch.

People flu - absolutely spot on term.

I had to go into the office in london twice in one week last month and it took me ages to recover.

I've been WFH since 2018 & I love it. I am
In my 50's with teens so it's perfect at this stage in my life.

I had a great time working in the office when I was younger though and would have hated WFH back then.

I love WFH too.

DH and I share a home office which means we keep each other company. We've made it a dedicated room in our house, so gives us some separation between work and home.

If we are both having a meeting at the same time, or one of us is going to be talking a lot, we can take a laptop down to the living room where we keep a portable second monitor.

I go into the office about once a month, DH once every few months. It's lovely to see people and I enjoy the social side, but I get much less work done. I find I can focus more without distractions at home.

We exercise most mornings and eat a decent breakfast before work. We also go for a lunchtime walk and make a big salad for lunch. So it is great for our health.

I would never go back to commuting daily.

I’m amazed that so many people live hours away from their offices. Mine was a 25 minute drive, evening could take longer depending on traffic etc.

Also how many people have suitable wfh spaces I.e a desk and chair, as opposed to crouching on a sofa with your laptop on the coffee table or perching on a kitchen stool with laptop on the worktop? MUSK problems galore building up for the future.

This sounds amazing. I'd certainly be more inclined to go into the office if it was like this.

My first london job was temping at a Swedish bank in the city. The staff restaurant was incredible& free. Those were a happy few weeks especially as I'd just moved here and had zero money.

Most people can negotiate. A couple of my friends work fully wfh and haven't been to the office at all ever, most go occasionally. I never had a fully wfh job, only ever been in the office, last job only 1 day wfh, which I enjoyed. I don't mind being in the office. I think for many a 3/2 is best. Plus agree with pp that older people probably need the office less, but all should be in the office occasionally, I do actually believe it helps. Young people, like say 22 year old graduates would probably get more out of a mentor, training, teamwork with at least 1 day in the office.

I can see the benefits of both. I'm a manager with a team of around 25 people. I can WFH on the odd day and can get so much more done without the distractions and phone ringing every 5 mins. It also offers more flexibility when I am ill and I tend to still work from bed as I'm the only person who does my job.

However, the 'distractions' of the workplace are part and parcel of being an onsite manager, and is time spent supporting, coaching and mentoring my team as well as quality assuring. Even brief conversations with others about their families, weekend plans etc build relationships and connections. This couldn't be done in my workplace if I was at home all the time.

I learned much about my role by sharing a space with my manager. I heard phone calls, interactions, asked questions, was coached through tasks and was able to talk through issues quickly and naturally.

I do worry that the trend of permanent WFH is going to show in a few years with a lack of these skills in the workforce as so many will not have had the opportunity to learn from others in the workplace.

Oh I agree with one of the PP - it is boring WFH! I cycle to work, an enjoyable commute, I like the chat and collaboration with my coworkers, even enjoy wearing office gear - I feel like I leave the domestic drudgery of parenthood behind and put my professional face on.
I WFH for several years, I found it suited everyone else - kids, husband, even neighbours for parcel delivery - but I was lonely and bored. And unfit and sluggish.

I don't understand how say for example HMRC had 80 million unanswered calls ,my local housing repairs phone line is open till 5 from 3pm onwards I've had real bother getting an answer and Friday afternoons ... forget about it.

Not enough staff to meet demand, in HMRCs case at least. Don't know about your housing repairs line of course.

And how do you think all the services you rely on - schools, shops, hospitals, dentists, police etc etc - would operate if all their staff fucked off to 'work from home'? I work in an office in one of those services and literally have to be present in work to be able to deal directly with all the other workers who absolutely could not do their job from home, and all the public who use that service.

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1858173/140k-a-year-manager-loses-landmark-tribunal-bid-right-work-exclusively-home

How does wfh cut down on childcare costs, as someone posted? Surely you aren't looking after kids while working?
This is why it's bullshit. Just like saying I do washing but only in my lunch hour.... really?

Probably childcare costs for the commute time?

When I’m in the office I need to have childcare in place for 3-8pm, this requires a nanny/ sitter at home.

Also for older children, mine is 10, they’re fine to be at home with you unsupervised while you work but you wouldn’t let them come home to an empty house.

Depends how good/big your house is. Dedicated office with quality desk/chair with two monitors is not comparable to working on your child's small bedroom desk with only laptop or using the ironing board in a cramped room.

@OptimismvsRealism

Being happy with my life and to live in an age of more choice than we've ever had before is not goady.

No, but the wide-eyed “why can’t everyone do what I do, you just need to be more like me,” is spectacularly goady, smug and naive.

I actually agree with you about wfh; I love it and find going into an office a burden which I avoid when I can but surely you understand that it isn’t quite this simple for everyone. This claim that you “literally” couldn’t do it is tone deaf in the extreme. Of course you could if feeding your children or keeping a roof over your head depended on it.

Just be quietly happy with the way you have arranged your life without hitting others over the head with it. It’s not a good look.

Also - why do I live so far away from the office? Cost of living mainly. I couldn’t buy the same house for my money in the city where I work. Pre-pandemic I had to work in my local city and earned far less. WFH allowed me to get a job with greater earning potential. This is good for the economy as I’m now paying more tax, and also circulating money for things like cleaners and childcare.

@Thevelvelletes - bad management. Poor staffing ratios

I work hybrid. In the office I probably get less done but I like that:

• it gets me out
• I do more steps
• I see friends
• my work is very separate to my home life (when I log off I am inclined to stay logged off)

WFH. I like that:

• I can exercise at lunchtime
• I can speak normally and freely on calls
• I can work into the evening if I want to
• I can really focus on something without distractions
• see more of the kids

Swings and roundabouts. I know one pro for office work is younger less experienced learn from us old folk. I don't have a team in my office and I am on calls most of the day. I do think in the past this was true but the way we work now is different. We need to find ways to pass on our knowledge more virtually.

I think that once you are in a senior leadership role this is absolutely the case.

I was in a similar role and made a decision to move roles to one that enables me to nearly always work from home because that will be better for my health.

I think leadership/mentoring etc requires a degree of in person presence.

There's no commute to need childcare for, so the number of hours it's required are reduced.

But also, actually quite a few of us have older primary aged DC who can entertain themselves at home for a bit after school, and roles where this isn't a problem. In our case it doesn't actually save money as DC wouldn't be able to cope in wraparound, so what it actually does is allow more paid work to be done. But most people in this position would experience it as a childcare saving.