To wonder how we ever did 5 days a week in an office?

[OptimismvsRealism]

I work hard and love my job (legal). Spent a day in the office today for the first time in months and honestly feel sick. The people flu! I couldn't go back. All those blokes in the City saying WFH was an "aberration" are deluded.

I get that some people love it and there's enough diversity in this world for everyone to find their niche but Oh My God am I glad I don't have to do the daily traipse any more.

@CassandraWebb I kinda agree about leadership needing some in person presence. However, I remember at the start of lockdown listening to a podcast where a CEO of an international company with staff all over the world explained how you could lead in that setting. The podcast was designed to teach those of us in a panic about leading teams remotely.

It can be done but you need different skills and I am still not sure it's as good as in person on a regular basis. Tips suggested were coming together for a few days every couple of months and being better communicators when using digital tools. That's where it gets hard - do we know how to communicate effectively digitally?

I totally agree.

The natural conversation at work if there is a query is much easier than if someone needs to call/message another.

Listening to how others resolve problems, or get involved with discussions that you might not have been part of if remote.

One of my colleagues waxes lyrical about how much more productive she is on her odd wfh days. But that's wholly due to all the little day to day queries stay in the office and it puts much more pressure on others in her team. Then she feels left out of work because she wasn't there to have discussions etc. she liked not having distractions while not realising these distractions are also part of the job.

I have been going in more recently and did 4 days last week, I was exhausted (I did travel 500 mile round trip for 2nd 2 days though). We have to do 60% office now, subject to desk. I do prefer being in the office. Yes you can get more work done at home but part of my job is chatting to my staff and collaborating and that’s not easy on a teams call with everyone with camera off and no-one speaks. Next week we have a team lunch, it’s nice seeing colleagues face to face

I answer our team phone probably 10 times more than I did precovid /WFH. People just ignore it because they can get away with it. It's poor form.

The "learning from being in" argument is used a lot but I don't believe it. My job is done in my head and confidential phone calls and conversations shouldn't be happening in front of other people unless they're invited. And they can be invited digitally!

We're definitely deskilling but the problem starts at school!

Natural conversation is really just chitchat - i think some people miss this which I get but I don't want to be sucked dry of my energy to help them out.

Plus, before COVID in my line of work, you'd frequently get a SHUSH for talking anyway. And the guy in sales used to boom away in his big stupid voice anyway. Again I think it all comes down to a suspicion that work isn't work if it doesn't hurt.

But @Fucketbucket you may have to develop the skills to do virtually what you do naturally in the office. Young people are so much more comfortable engaging on line. Perhaps we learn something from them. I know what you mean about the office engagement but times are changing and we have to adapt.

Absolutely. I’m a senior manager with staff in 6 locations across the U.K. I couldn’t do my job effectively working solely at home. It requires face to face contact, it requires me to build relationships with my teams and those in other locations appreciate my presence every few weeks. We don’t allow any of our managers to work solely from home, as it’s not suitable to lead a team and never see colleagues face to face. We have some team leaders running teams meetings with no cameras on and it’s a constant battle with some to get them to understand their role means they should be building relationships and you can’t do that properly hiding behind a screen

But if they're in six locations... Which location do you pick?

I manage ten (fte so actually 12). Most go in occasionally because they like it. They can socialise with peers, catch up on office gossip (although I tend to be best on gossip tbh). Some never do. I go in maybe once a month but not for a full day. I'll meet clients occasionally too but most prefer online.

Even my dentist is mostly remote now🤣

Exactly. My work involves supporting people, often by phone, many of whom are local authority employees working 9-5 from home. Almost always failed appointments and DNAs are at school pick up time. On one occasion I had to tell the employee I couldn't fulfil her appointment if she was actually at the school gate actively engaged in collecting her child.

You definitely CAN be an excellent leader fully remotely (it for sure needs different skills and approaches) but a certain kind of extrovert hates that and misinterprets their need for forced teaming as a business essential.

@Jewel1968

Some of what I do just wouldn't be possible to do online as it involves natural interactions that can't happen if I was working in isolation.

Some young people are more comfortable engaging online and that can be an excellent skill, however engaging with people is also an important skill. We can all learn from each other.

I have a global role and my team/extended team are located internationally.

Working from home means I can take calls at 7am with people in Asia/Oceania and then late afternoon in the Americas. Although I work long days, working from home means I have flexibility and still be around at home. If I had to go to the office I would.need to get up at 5am to be in the office before 7am to take calls at that time and then not return until late evening. Unsustainable especially with a family.

I do travel regularly and that is tiring etc but I do prefer it to the daily commute.

I've no issue with the first part of your comment. There are contexts where it's possible to lead and work remotely and it does need a different skill set
The rest of the post is just sneering.

People do these things in the time when they’d have been sat chatting to a colleague across the desk, wandering about making brews and having a chat in the kitchen etc.

Not having to commute means you get that time back in your day, it doesn’t mean people aren’t doing the work that needs to be done, but often the time that work is done can be more flexible.

One of my team picks up her child every day, but she’ll often be logged on early or late. If she wants to do work outside of a strict 9-5 I don’t care as long as it’s done, we don’t clock staff in and out we treat them like adults.

Are you not checking they can do the time slots offered? No matter the reason they can’t do the meeting slot why don’t they just decline the meeting?

I feel much the same. I can take work hone occassionally and I actually do get much more done without having to answer the phone/door multiple times a day or people interrupting the flow of work by wanting you to "just fit sonething in" between planned work.
But, I work in a practical job and there is a lot of collaboration sharing of skills and ideas. If something tricky comes in sometimes 3 of us will be discussing the best way of approaching that job. Or sharing a tip that makes sonething simpler or even just a second opinion on something.
Most people I work with are 40+ so we're not newbies learning how to do stuff, more just sharing knowledge or trying to improve.
I appreciate this isn't the same for everyone in all jobs and I'm sure there are lots of jobs that are done effectively in isolation or without seeking others opinion.

How does that work in local authority services when members of the public can't get in touch with people by phone during designated work hours? Flexibility works in some roles (and of course should be extended where it's viable) but not all.

Of course. I offer the time slots I have available and they say whether they can do them and commit to an appointment. The available slots are always in usual working hours as the clients are referred and paid for by occupational health. I wish they would decline those school run slots if they can't do them. It wouldn't be a problem. They'd be referred back for reallocation to someone who has slots outside the school run.

To be fair it's not only people in senior roles who are responsible for mentoring. When I qualified as a nurse, I was not in a senior role, but straight away I was responsible for mentoring students and other newly qualified. Admittedly WFH is not an option when you work on a ward, but the point is everyone is responsible for training new staff.

I think this ruling highlights that no one has an automatic right to WFH (a lot of people seem to assume there is) and it really will depend on the needs of the business. I am sure there will be more cases like this in the future. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

No it isn't. Extroverts often don't understand that what works for them - what they say is "good for you" - is terrible and excluding for others. They think their human experience is universal and so miss out meeting the needs of huge chunks of it.

I beg to differ. The tone of the latter part of the post sounds sneering to me.

Presumably because you're not very empathetic. Take a step back maybe.

What's fantastic is there are now a hell of lot more WFH or hybrid options.

The benefits are enormous, for peoples health and practical lifestyles.

Parents suddenly have more realistic working options because of the flexibility.

If the jealous on site workers think wfh is a skive...Well 2 things .

1. You can skive in the office. Gossiping, wandering around, private Internet use, long tea making breaks etc

1. WFH still means you are managed. If you aren't doing your job then it's up to the bosses to pull you up on it.

Seriously, wfh has not had an overall negative effect on the country, that's nonsense.

The 'get back to work' brigade always seem to be right wingers as well. Why is that?

If you really don't see how the tone of some of your phrasing can be interpreted and you resort to making judgements about people you don't know, I see it as a waste of time to engage in debate with you.