More than private school fees will be affected by VAT

[MyNameIsFine]

Don't actually know if I'm being unreasonable here, interested to know whether this is true or not. Will the VAT on education also affect holiday clubs and afterschool clubs?

But how does that work? So, when a state school takes their kids to the local pool for a lesson, that's 'education', but when a private school teaches children the same thing in their own pool, that's not education? Swimming is part of the national curriculum.

Well, I'm not the one drafting the legislation so I don't know exactly what it will say, but at a guess, I would presume that anything within the standard school day that is part of the curriculum for all pupils will be VATable, whereas optional extras, wrap-around care etc will not.

Pupils at the Royal Ballet School and several other full-time elite music and dance schools are funded largely by the MDS scheme, which is government-funded. So the government would be charging itself VAT which would be rather pointless.

Private schools can struggle to get subject teachers too. Education is in a mess

Same as MoD for military families. That's why this whole policy is ridiculous and not properly thought through.

I hope some way is found to exempt the choir schools.

We had to comply with EEC regulations about what was and wasn't taxable. Now that we've left the EU we could change this.
This is what I don't get. Labour have said that they want to remain aligned to EU laws. This is quite a divergence and wouldn't be allowed to stand if they wanted to rejoin.

The focus and motive of the policy is obvious.
@Kneidlach but the practical application of it is not.

I think they will be keen to get in some "wins" as soon as they can. on things they think won't cost. This, and maybe something like a wide scope conversion therapy bill.

They know they have no extra money for schools and the NHS, so they need something to point to.

Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of poor legislation in recent years, not just the LP, and not just the UK< by any means. But a general trend to being sloppy with virtue signalling bills that end up with unintended consequences. There is a real tendency for governments, and people, to behave as if questioning details means trying to deny the importance of x,y, or z. If it's well meaning, after all, how could it fail?

This is a new level of absurd.

So basic education is vat able and the added luxuries (swimming, dance etc) are not.

Right.

This is a policy dreamed up by Labour fantasists who have political ideals and no idea of what people's lives look like and what they pay for, in reality.

What about subjects like Latin and Greek that aren't part of the national curriculum, but often part of general curriculum at private schools? Is 'Amo, amas and amat' a luxury item, but 'The cat sat on the mat' just basic?

My local school doesn’t even offer gcse German or music. Hardly “luxuries” in my opinion.

"Basic education" is free in the state sector. It will only be taxable if you choose the luxury option of private education.

If I take my child out of school altogether my child will get 1:1 luxury attention. So is the government going to tax me for that?

Private schools will probably stop letting state schools use their facilities for free.

This is the issue. Labour's proposals are all headline so far. They say 'private education' but private education - ie not paid for the state could include swimming lessons, music lessons, football coaching, academic coaching, for grammar schools, university fees, pre-schools. evening classes.

At the moment we just don't know. It won't be easy law for a new govt to write, to target only private full time schools of KS1, KS2, KS3, KS4. What about specials schools?

I don't think it could include wrap around care as that counts as childcare.

Will it include KS5 is another question. There are some local authorities that simply don't provide A'levels. The local private school is the only option.

So many unanswered questions.

Two local primaries use our pool. The fees, currently just a contribution towards heating, will have to go up, which means they'll probably stop using us. It's a shame.

I find it shocking that schools are cutting back on modern languages and arts subjects. Incredibly short-sighted of the government not to protect these subjects. I have the impression that they are in decline for a number of reasons:

1. Harder to get top grades so pupils are discouraged from taking them because of the effect on league tables
2. Problems with recruiting staff
3. Universities cutting back on those departments because many of the potential applicants would come from private schools and that affects their Widening Participation targets - knock on effect is there are fewer graduates available to become music and MFL teachers.
4. In the case of MFL, deep-seated cultural resistance in the UK to learning foreign languages.

I can't see how Labour's policy is going to improve matters.

One issue I have is that some state schools offer things like Latin, music, German etc. If we want to access that, we either have to move or pay for private school. State education should not be a postcode lottery. Everyone should have access to the same good level of state education.

But the point of the policy isn't to improve matters. The point of the policy is to make sure that everyone is at the mercy of the state and what the state chooses to fund. They don't want people to actually have a choice. That way we're all equal. No snobs who learnt Latin.

Of course they should! Education should be about expanding horizons and introducing children to all sorts of useful and interesting subjects, ideas and experiences.

I have a Classics degree. At the time I was at school (1970s) Latin was in rapid decline in state schools and Greek had withered on the vine, but if I'd gone to the local state school I would have been able to study Latin at least. As it was I got a 100% state scholarship to a direct grant school and was able to study both Latin and Greek to A level and then went on to study Classics at university. Changed my life, very much for the better. The fact that hardly anybody else studied Latin doesn't make me a snob. Classics is a brilliant subject and it's a great shame that it's been squeezed out of so many schools. Still, at least it's still surviving at university level.

Couldn’t agree more. Mine do Latin and Greek. I know that some on here laugh and make fun of those subjects, but I think they’re great to learn and every child should have that opportunity. Latin is arguably more useful than some MFLs!

So you're not a snob, you're a swat. And we can't have that either 😁

Yes, I should be ashamed!