More than private school fees will be affected by VAT

[MyNameIsFine]

Don't actually know if I'm being unreasonable here, interested to know whether this is true or not. Will the VAT on education also affect holiday clubs and afterschool clubs?

Nobody, at any time, has said that VAT would be applied to holiday clubs and after school clubs. YABU.

OK I need to start pay attention, 20% on top of her lesson costs for dancing will probably finish me off. I hadn't realised that there could be other consequences to charging vat for term fees for private schools.

Oh, I see - you mean the extras offered WITHIN your private school?

That is not what your OP suggests!

I assumed you were asking a disingenuous question about 'childcare' in an attempt to scare all parents.

As to what will be included as 'fees' I guess that is a live question as private schools will seek to avoid as much as possible.

But what counts as a fee paying school? At a non-professional, just fun dancing classes, dance school everyone pays, therefore it is a fee paying school? And if sports and activities are not going to fall into it, surely private schools can split their fees to be a VAT-able academic element, then after school and sports activities non VAT-able.
lots of holiday and community activities run on private school grounds, so it wouldn’t be possible to do it by premises unless there were going to be exemptions for certain times of year. It is all very complicated

Believe me, if this has been made up to panic people, I will be very happy! The poster on the other thread (first pp on this) was very sure, though. Said I could find this if I googled, but no luck.

Tutoring and private education are considered separately under the VAT guidance on .gov. So they can be treated differently.

If you are interested in what the current rules are (rather than scaremongering) the guidance on .gov is fairly straightforward. You just need to remember that 'exempt', 'outside of scope' and 'zero rated' are all different things, despite all resulting in no vat being charged.

Detail enough has been made public for where we are IMO.

The usual process will follow: green paper, consultation, white paper, parliamentary review.

But you are only discussing the extras offered WITHIN your existing private school?

It seems very unlikely given that every explanation of the policy I have seen links the policy specifically to independent schools (also known as private schools). The link below gives some details from the House of Lords library.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/independent-schools-proposed-vat-changes/

If anything after school clubs linked to state schools might be better funded as the plan is for the money raised from the abolition of the pre-existing tax advantage for independent schools to go into the state sector. Other things like nursery/ childcare funding will be dealt with separately.

Further details will be in the manifesto which I think is due to be published next week.

If Labour comes into power, its plan to implement VAT on private school fees might extend to holiday and after-school clubs, depending on their primary focus. Childcare-focused clubs could remain VAT-exempt, while activity-based clubs would likely be taxed.

The uproar stems from private schools currently enjoying charitable status, which exempts them from VAT—a benefit not available to state schools. Many private school parents are spreading misinformation to protect their interests, suggesting that the changes are an attack on aspiration and could threaten small schools. However, this argument overlooks that 95% of parents already pay VAT on similar services.

It's important to stay informed and not let private school parents mislead others for their own gain. Labour's policy aims to create a fairer system and redirect funds to improve state education.

Roughly 6% of kids go to private school in the UK. Roughly 30% of children are deemed to be living in poverty under the Tories. I would like to know more about plans for getting those 30% of children out of poverty than people going on and on and on and on about the 6%.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus

but isn't the obvious point that they've said it's for 'education'?

I don't see how the wrap around care & ballet fees will come into it?!

id try not to worry about it. I think it's all going to fizzle out to nothing much, just enough so he can say he did it. IF the turkey even gets in.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/what-are-labours-plans-for-ending-tax-breaks-for-private-schools

The vast majority of after school clubs are not classed as private education.

The after school club association is not concerned by this proposal.

No, that is not a school.
You can't send your child there instead of regular school, can you?

It really isn't very complicated.

Where does your child go to school? Private, state or home?

Holiday club is open to everybody and not run by the school. Aftercare is only provided for pupils in the school, but can be paid for separately (through tax free childcare) from the main school bill. Because it's childcare, not education, right?

Some of us having been trying to flag this for a few months to be fair.

But more than 6% use holiday clubs and dance lessons etc.

What funds?

7% in England
18% by 6th Form
30% in Scotland

I agree it's very confusing. Our school fees include wrap around care. Presumably either all wrap around care paid for by parents will be taxed, or none. Similarly, parents' contribution to private nursery fees is no different to the nursery class in a private school and would presumably count as early years education. And what exactly is 'education' within the school day? Our fees cover staff who watch children at break and lunchtime as well as before and after school. Is that 'education'? Is sport 'education'? Those 'class bonding' trips to the beach or wherever? Music lessons? If so presumably all parent funded private music lessons or sports, dance, tutors etc any 'education' paid for privately by parents would be classed as a luxury aspect to education and taxed. You'll be relying on your provider having a turnover under the vat threshold - dance and swim schools, sports coaching companies, tutoring through a company, will be above it and I can't see how they would be excluded from this tax unless you define education in a very limited way, in which case a lot of the private school offer also wont be taxed. It is so poorly thought through.

The only child in any of my kids classes who has moved is the son of a plumber who was on a 90% bursary. He was year 9 and because nobody knows, nobody could guarantee there wouldn't be a 20percent increase in his fees, and it would hit him in year 11. His family couldn't just soak that up. And all the good schools around us are full so yes, he is now bussed out to an unsubscribed, failing school that had a space. Great job Labour.

I won't be voting Labour for the first time in my life, because this policy is about headlines and politics. Not about people. I thought the Guardian letters page today had it covered.

Where does your child go to school - private, state or home? If private, VAT will be added to the fees.

Holiday club is nothing to do with the private school - you have said that yourself.

The wraparound care - ask your school. They already know how they will respond.

KS has already had to make clear that VAT will not apply to state boarding fees.

I am assuming, they will also have to be clear that it will also not apply to nursery places at private schools, even though they are located in private premises.

Also not applicable to SEN schools, because then local councils would have to suck it up.

I can see a lot of exemptions on the way.

It is very complicated! But generally, the vat categorisation tends to follow the categorisation of the main supply.

So say you provide two services which you charge for, and one is standard rated and the other is zero-rated. You also have an additional element which is added to the package. This would be charged VAT at the same rate as the main supply.

I'm struggling to think of a useful example - the situation I've dealt with at work is complicated and boring -

For a dance school?

Youa re being very unclear, are you actually trying to cause confusion by misrepresenting the policy.

Dance lessons are not private school. Holiday clubs are not private school.