To speak to other kids parents about them upsetting DS?

[Yesterdayyesterday]

DS(9) is upset tonight. He said when he went to sit down at lunch today, three boys immediately got up and went to sit at the other side of the hall. He said it has happened multiple times recently.

I'm so upset for him. It's not the first time recently that he has mentioned having social issues at school. He plays football at break/lunch times but from what he said otherwise no one wants to play with him. He even said that one of the Year 3 boys asked him why everyone hates him the other day.

For the record, I think DS could have autism. He has always had obsessions/special interests and I imagine the other kids get fed up him talking about one thing all the time.

I'm going to talk to his teacher tomorrow but wondering whether I should speak to the other kids parents too? I do know two of them quite well.

I’d speak to the school - not naming the boys, but more generally about the fact that you are concerned that your son is very unhappy and that he is isolated from his peers - you could mention the incident as an example that there is some group dynamic that you and DS are failing to understand. They can then observe him for a while, feed back. It may be a misunderstanding, or it maybe that your son has done/said something that has upset these boys (it’s never one sided in these things); or it may be a form of bullying. The school would be best placed to look into it and then agree an action plan once they have got to the bottom of it.

Hi OP it’s really shit isn’t it.

Id ask the teacher who your DS is friendly with during lesson times. Then start making play dates with those kids.

Some times our kids can gravitate to the popular kids when actually there are other kids who would love their company.

I agree with talking to school not parents.

I don't agree with the assumption that your son's lack of social skills are causing the problem - or at least that they're the only cause and he needs to fix it. It's worth looking up Damien Milton's double empathy theory here for a different perspective on the interaction between ND and NT social skills.

Moving away, in a block, repeatedly and asking 'why does everyone hate you' isn't okay and feels pretty close to bullying.

PP is wise about getting an autism assessment if possible. It can really help to understand that there's a reason you're different and that's ok, and there are other people like you. That you're a zebra not a horse gone wrong.

Sorry - one more thing. There is a plausible back story where your son is annoying and disruptive and other kids have run out of patience. There's also one where your kid is a bit weird and the other kids are being conformist and status-obsessed and don't want to be associated with the weird kid. Annoying and disruptive is on him to find a way to fix, weird isn't. Weird is good.

Op I'm really sorry as we have the situation but from the other side. There is a boy in my ds friendship group and I know him quite well, as they have been in this group for a number of years. I'm also certain he has some additional needs. The group and parents have always tried to be inclusive, and encouraged the boys to do so but I can see tolerance wearing thin in the group. As the boys are growing up (9yo too) they are choosing their play dates, parties etc and this boy is being left out. From my part I have been asking my ds to include him but it's getting to a point where my ds doesn't want to that much. I told ds that's fine but he is not allowed to do something like what these boys are doing to your ds.
Speak to the school. Tell them what's going on and ask for advice. I don't think you can approach the parents.
Our school also has a buddy system where each child has an older mentor /buddy.

My youngest DS is diagnosed ASD and in primary school, there was a boy in their friend group who had said a couple of things really mean to one of the others in the group (racist in nature) and the others in the group were fuming about it. I advised my DS just to walk away from the boy and not get into any arguments with him and it seems the other boys were advised the same. Apparently his parents were told a different tale from him. We did inform the teacher for her to deal with (she did amazing too and did a session on racism)

Now I'm not saying that's what has happened here, but as a PP said, maybe they have been advised to walk away rather than have to say something themselves.

Oh my DD is ND too and it is an endless worry BUT I trust school to raise particular issues with me and if I was really concerned I'd have a word with the teachers.

I'm a teacher and it can be hard to sort out who did what and why etc. They probably don't enjoy his company, or possibly saw another friend across the room and went to sit with them. Boys can be quite into "gangs" and who is cool at this age. So they might be friendly to a non cool boy at a club, but not when their friends are around. It doesn't mean the non cool child is doing anything wrong. Like adults, not everyone likes everyone else, but adults are better at being polite, respectful and not showing this. That's not to say school staff shouldn't be discussing these things with them, though. Is it a one off or does it often happen? If often, it could be intentional bullying and you should raise it with school.

BTW we seem to have a lot of ND boys (and girls) at my school now and many of them, more so the boys, actually seek each out and play happily together apart from the in-crowd boys.

I can understand why you are worried, it's horrible to think that your child is upset but I would not speak to the parents. I'm not sure speaking to the school will do much good either, they are entitled to walk away. If it escalates to name calling or worse you should speak to the school then. Are any of the class friendly with him? Could you ask if he wants to invite one of them to tea?

OP you think your son might be autistic - are you seeking medical treatment?

Autism (or ASD) is a disorder, and it is one that responds in many cases to treatment. I know that’s a touchy topic for many - but it is reality. It’s not about curing or erasing Autistic tendencies, but about making fitting in the works easier and more pleasant (for the individual and others). Learning how to engage with friendships, learning hope to manage otherwise stressful situations, and for the family learning how to effectively advocate are all important.

You need to talk to the teachers about your son’s socialising at school. This doesn’t sounds like an isolated incident. But you also need to look at what support your son needs to fit in. The other kids are not obligated to be his friend - if they do find his hyper fixation annoying they can choose to sit away from him. It might be that teaching him not to share his special interests so intensely would be teaching him to hide his true self - but it might also be the opening to friendships.

RubyOrca's view is a rather outdated one and I really really hope she doesn't work with autistic children.

Jesus fucking Christ, who would say that? Would you say that? How horrible.

Many many parents would defend their children. Why should other children be forced to put up with situations of behaviour they don't want to?
They don't have to be friends.
They are managing this as 9 year olds themselves.

@Allthegoodnamesaregone1 we were on the other side of this earlier this year. A boy kept hounding my son, he just didn't understand boundaries at all. We spoke to the school they said to be polite and walk away.

So I can easily see how it can be challenging. My son is a kind boy , he has friends in his social group who are ND and NT, he has extended family who are profoundly impacted by autism.

What he doesn't have is an adult capacity to navigate a challenging scenario. It must be quite common and it doesn't seem to be supported.

I probably wouldn't say that but I might have a different version of the event that might make me not say what the mother would want me to say (which is "I'll make my DC sit with your DC"). The problem is that as parents we are typically working with one version of events that our DC has given us and which presents them in the best possible light and everyone as big meanies. That's why I stay out of all friendship issues unless it's clear bullying. I might "coach" my DC in terms of how to deal with it but tackling the other parents is unlikely to yield anything and even re. the school, most times it resolves itself within a week or so, so unless it was ongoing I'd stay out and let my DC find their own solutions. Like DD was in a "threeship" which was clearly not working (two them them really wanted to be BFF with the third girl and not really with each other) so I encouraged her to diversify a bit and it worked. She's salvaged the friendships with A&B but it's all much less intense and she has other friends she hangs out with too. Going up the school to say "A is encouraging B to leave DD out" would probably have just made it worse and wouldn't have taught dd anything.

Sorry, did you just suggest there’s an actual medical treatment for autism? What exactly would that be?

Is medical treatment not normal in the UK? Where I live autism is a diagnosed disorder. It’s entirely normal to have medical support in managing for the individual and the family. It’s a recognised disability and eligible (depending on impacts) for disability funding for the child/adult as well as school and workplace accommodations .

There are a range of medical interventions used (depending on the needs of the child) and interventions I’m familiar with include OTs and psychologists/counsellor. My circle is small so I’d expect there are other medical options for those who are more significantly impacted.

For the people I know, both parents of children diagnosed and adults with late diagnosis, these have been helpful in managing the realities of autism. I know someone who met with psychologist (I think - apologies if I’ve got the wrong qualifications ) who specialised in autism as a family for how they could better run the household given the mix of NT and ND people and were given strategies to be more effective and it reduced a lot of practical problems they were seeing (stuff like you do this - but that doesn’t work for your ASD child because of this - try this instead because etc).

With a medical diagnosis our schools are required to put in place plans to help the child. Many schools fail to do what they are required to - I’m not pretending everything actually works according to the books - but these processes make it somewhat easier for parents to advocate than if they weren’t in place. And when the rules are followed (which sometimes happens) it is helpful for the child.

Workplace accommodations can also be requested - and I know colleagues who, having been diagnosed as adults, were able to make work easier by making changes to how they did things after getting help from experts.

If OP thinks her child is autistic, and thinks it is behind his difficulty socialising (and so there’s actual life impacts for the child) her child might benefit from a diagnosis (what if it is not autism but something else and different approaches would be best?). That must always be weighed against the stigma that still exists, and so sometimes avoiding a diagnosis is the better option.

Autism isn’t a personality trait. It can have genuine impacts on your life experiences, how you interact with school (and hence the education you receive) and your employment long term. It can significantly affect your interpersonal relationships, and that affects (or can) how happy you are at school/home/work etc. Quality medical care seems the best place to go for help for something medical rather than just fumbling along and hoping it works out. Although if you live in a place without quality medical care it’s a different story.

I may have misunderstood - given there is no “medical treatment” for autism on the NHS in the sense that I would use those words I had assumed by “treatment” you were advocating detoxifying/vitamins/other quackery or possibly ABA. I now better understand what you meant.

Regardless of what one might call occupational therapy or seeing a counsellor I agree those sorts of things, school adjustments etc can very helpful, and I certainly agree that pursuing a diagnosis is often valuable.

So it's up to the autistic person to put in all the work - maybe it's also up to the school to teach children about different forms of communication, interaction and neurotype

This may be startling but I told my son that other people will start to avoid him if he doesn't stop talking to them about his special interest and we, his parents, do not want to hear about it in every conversation. Even neurodivegent children can be taught that their behaviour is making life difficult for them.

Did it work @Sablecat ?

Yes, In seeking out friendships you want you have to adapt to the others in the group.

Well done. I struggle with this at home