To speak to other kids parents about them upsetting DS?

[Yesterdayyesterday]

DS(9) is upset tonight. He said when he went to sit down at lunch today, three boys immediately got up and went to sit at the other side of the hall. He said it has happened multiple times recently.

I'm so upset for him. It's not the first time recently that he has mentioned having social issues at school. He plays football at break/lunch times but from what he said otherwise no one wants to play with him. He even said that one of the Year 3 boys asked him why everyone hates him the other day.

For the record, I think DS could have autism. He has always had obsessions/special interests and I imagine the other kids get fed up him talking about one thing all the time.

I'm going to talk to his teacher tomorrow but wondering whether I should speak to the other kids parents too? I do know two of them quite well.

But the previous times he may have annoyed them could be the reason why they didn't want to sit with him this time. It's all relative. It doesn't matter if he wasn't annoying them at that point. Maybe they were trying to avoid being annoyed again. Honestly talk to the school but don't be 'that' parent by going to the other parents. Unfortunately children are allowed to choose who to sit with.

You need to go through the school.

You are understandably positioned to support your dc, but the other parents will be positioned to support their dc. No good will come of a direct discussion.

A teacher may be placed to help with friendships, but that might not mean they are able to force specific dc to be friendly.

You have issues you deal with the school

No the teacher didn't speak to the parents because it was an in school issue. The issue was supporting my child to disengage.

I’d speak to school before going direct to the parents to see their perspective on how the boys interact in class/ at lunch.

I doubt they’d have spoken with you unless there was a physical altercation so it’s not unusual that you might not be aware of a falling out, or irritations happening that seem trivial. It does sound similar to what others have said that maybe someone has told the boys to keep away if they don’t get on, but being 9 they’ve taken this rather bluntly. It’s obviously not nice when your child is ignored but you do need more context from school as perhaps your son hasn’t picked up on cues of them showing irritation before this happened. I’m also not saying it’s right that he’s been isolated, obviously you need to find out why and find a way to make him happier at school - I just think you need a bit more info on why it’s got to this stage before speaking with parents who may have a totally different version of events.

Nooo never speak to the parents. Deal with it via school.

If school don't tackle it, move schools.

I wonder if there are any community play/youth project staff that could offer help?

I'm a primary school teacher and am dealing with something similar in my class at the moment.

When X sits down, the other children move away. X is very unhappy about this. The reason they do that is because for weeks and months X has annoyed them, disregarded their boundaries, misunderstood social norms and rules, disrupted their conversations and games, and made them uncomfortable. In blunt terms, it's more pleasant for these children not to sit with X than to sit with X.

None of this is X's fault. X cannot help not understanding social boundaries and rules. But it's not the fault of the 9 yr olds who don't want yet another game or conversation disrupted either. They did not begin the year moving away from X.

I am setting firm rules about inclusion, and being very explicit about the difference between moving away and being mean. It is currently taking a lot of my time and headspace to manage. However, the ultimate solution is for X to have support to learn some social boundaries and guidelines. X wants to be accepted, but X will not be accepted entirely on X's own terms while disregarding the wants and needs of those around X. I have worked with other children who have had to do the same. The cruel truth is that the world will not pause all social norms to accomodate X. X must learn some specific behaviours if X wants to be included. These rules apply to everyone (ND and NT) and can be learned. The most settled and happy ND children at school are the ones who have had support to fit in.

I’m sorry, but the fact that he hadn’t done anything to annoy them at that moment doesn’t mean he hasn’t annoyed them many times before or that they find him difficult company in general.

And these are children, at the end of the day. Of course they’re not going to handle things with the same sense of polite obligation that an adult would. And it’s also very, very normal for kids to fall out a lot and change friends as often as they change their socks.

I completely understand how heartbreaking it is for you to know that your son is upset by this, and I feel very sorry for your son. I remember being suddenly ditched by my friends in a similar way when I was a kid and it was awful; I have huge sympathy for your little boy.

But ultimately children are allowed to choose who they do and don’t want to spend their time with. They’re not obliged to be his friends and they are allowed to avoid him if they don’t enjoy his company. If you think there’s active bullying going on, then definitely address it with the school, or ask for their advice on how he might be able to handle things, but don’t think it would be at all reasonable or proportionate to speak to the other kids’ parents.

Thank you @Cindyhadayellowcar , you sound like a great teacher. I was the parent of the so called mean boy who after five years of being nice, lost his temper and walked away. His teacher was wonderful in supporting him and reassuring him he wasn't a horrible person because he felt he couldn't be a good friend.

I hope @Yesterdayyesterday your sons teacher can help your son.

Why would you assume that when they've not reached out to you about the other boys upsetting your son?

I don’t think the kids did anything too wrong tbh. They got up and left. They didn’t want to sit with him and that is their prerogative. They didn’t call him names , say anything mean, they just moved. It’s hard on your son I know but it sounds like they are just establishing their own boundaries.

Poor chap. I hope the teacher is able to help.

@Yesterdayyesterday I’m sure this is tough to hear and you do sound realistic about your child but it’s still hard, huh?

I think talking to teacher as others have suggested but in addition talk to your son.

Ask him questions;

I noticed you were kicking the ball around with Billy yesterday. Did something get worked out from lunch the other day?

When he told you they all got up from the table…
Oh.. I bet that made you feel bad. Did something happen earlier in the day? Did any of them give you a reason they left?
Have you been talking to them about your model train collection?

I think you might get a better picture of what is going on. If he says that Billy will play with him if Bobby isn’t there then it might be a queen bee situation. Or maybe you find out that earlier in the day your son annoyed all of them by telling them in detail about his train hobby or whatever. You might find out your son is dawdling at lunch and they’ve finished eating by the time he sat down.

Honestly at that age it’s a crapshoot as to what the reason is for some of these fallouts.

It does sound like you already have one concrete thing to work with him on, the hobby. I’d also start there and begin teaching him that it’s ok to have and talk about an interest but he needs to moderate.

Don't speak to the parents, call school and ask for their take on things.

These boys aren't obliged to sit with your son or be his friend. I understand it can be really hard to see you child isolated and lonely like this, it must be really hurtful. But it sounds like these boys haven't been outright nasty? They want to avoid your son and so moved away from him? It's probably what they've been told to do to avoid any conflict or de-escalate.

I always tell my children not to be unkind, but also that they don't need to be friends or spend time with people if they don't want to. Your son's behaviour might be very annoying to them and they don't have the emotional maturity to deal with it tactfully so they're trying to avoid him.

I recently had a parent turn up at my house and acuse my son of bullying, but what has actually been happening is her son has been following my son and his friends around, trying to sit with them and join in. They don't like the boy and have tried to ignore him but eventually got fed up with him butting in and it came to a head. This situation sounds similar and your son needs to find his own friends.

School might have a lunchtime nurture club or something he can go to that will help with social skills.

Thanks, I have been through all these questions with him today. No one said why they were leaving, he can't think of anything that happened earlier in the day/week. He says that he hardly ever talks to them about his special interest, but I said that they might think that is what he was going to talk about.

His special interest at the moment by the way is football, which is probably one of the best things it could be to engage with peers at this age. It's just that he is so so into it in a very detailed way. I can't imagine what this would be like if it was model trains or something.

I disagree, I think just getting up and leaving is incredibly mean, I wouldn't do this as an adult, its beyond rude unless the other person was abusive. At 9 they can all be annoying.
I wouldn't contact the other parents based on the replies here as most seem to have no issue with it and its all about protecting "boundaries" apparently. I would speak to the school and your son and try and help him manage his interests in a way that don't take over conversations and allow others to speak. Great that is is into sport as that helps massively with boys friendships especially as they grow older
I always taught my son to be kind, not a pushover but understand that he can be annoying too and some things can be more difficult for others and to look out for people and include them. Even the "weird" kid you never know you might find something in common with. He is 16 now but has so many friends and everyone likes him but I remember one of his friends saying years ago, "John is nice to everyone". Even then the cool kids thought it was something to be admired. People look out of their own I understand but they never know when their child me in need of some kindness. Things can change and Ive seen v popular kids suddenly find themselves on the outs.

Absolutely leave it to school to deal with.

As parent of a diagnosed autistic child, can I encourage you to pursue your hunch that your son might be autistic because a) it’s a lot easier to then know what you’re dealing with and expect allowances to be made or to get help with social skill building, b) it will help your child to understand themselves which is key to their self esteem and c) it’s then easier for them to meet other autistic children, go to specific youth groups etc.

My autistic child has a reasonable number of NT school friends, but his best friends and the children he is really close to that he says actually understand him are also autistic.

This. And honestly at your son's age he will be humiliated his mum did this. You're just handing these boys something else to make your son feel bad.

Nobody has to play with anybody if they don't want to.

Who knows what your child did? He might be annoying them or something and not really mean it.

I wouldn't talk to the other parents the best thing you could do is teach your son good social skills, empathy, and boundaries.

The problem is he probably isn’t aware of what he has done. There was a child in my class who would laugh if someone got an answer wrong (this really, really bothers other children), stand too close to the others, laugh at peoples hair cuts and clothes, join in with banter without understanding the nuances, tell on the others for minor things like not having the correct school shoes or not eating their vegetables, talk about having constipation or other personal issues etc. He was completely unaware that any of this annoyed or upset others and didn’t link this with rejection in the playground.

On the plus side, children are far more forgiving than adults and will forget about this kind of stuff if there is a fun game to be played or a shared interest to be discussed.

I would talk to the teacher because the parents will be only really be concerned about their own children.

That sounds very upsetting for you and him, but not something to contact parents about. I do think all kids getting up and leaving a table when someone arrives is unkind behaviour and perhaps your son is being excluded partly as a matter of rote due to some groupthink about him being annoying or uncool. I'd take this exclusion as the basis for talking to the teacher to see if there's a way to encourage more inclusive interactions.

I'd also try to have your son assessed, and meanwhile to work with him on learning to take turns in conversation, and maybe role play social interactions with him. Social stories can work well - see https://autismlittlelearners.com/social-stories-for-school/

This ^^

Why do you keep calling it a 'special interest ' rather than just 'he's obsessed with football at the moment'?

Do you also have some ND? Is friendship and socialising something that he sees modelled at home?

It's the norm with ASD to describe something as a special interest rather than obsession, as it is a less negative characterisation