To think that this really can't be true about young people's thoughts about Israel?

[Another2Cats]

So, I just read an article where they say they have done a poll of young people and, of those under 25, 54% said that they agree with the statement "the state of Israel should not exist". Just 21% disagreed.

Did the polling company manage to just randomly pick a bunch of people that feel this way, or is this genuinely how many young people feel?

IABU to think that this can't really be true? (I am quite prepared to accept that IABU and that this really is what a majority of young people believe)

The link is here:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/majority-of-young-britons-think-israel-should-not-exist/

and this is the text of the article:

A majority of Britain’s young people do not believe Israel should exist, a new UnHerd poll has revealed.

A preliminary finding of an exclusive survey of 1,012 voters about foreign policy, conducted by Focaldata and due to be released tomorrow on UnHerd, found that a striking 54% of 18-24-year-olds agreed with the statement that “the state of Israel should not exist.” Just 21% disagreed.

This finding dovetails with other UnHerd polling on the same issue. In a separate question, young respondents were asked who was more to blame for the war in Gaza. Half blamed the Israeli government, while a quarter answered Hamas. Only 19% responded “all equally”.

The war’s high degree of exposure online and on social media appears to have fuelled interest among Britain’s young. An AI-generated “all eyes on Rafah” graphic was shared more than 44 million times on Instagram recently, with pro-Palestine content also proliferating on TikTok. Critics have argued that the Chinese social media platform has deliberately promoted anti-Israel content, which TikTok has denied, citing the existing attitudes of its young user base.

These attitudes are reflected in further UnHerd polling, which asked young Britons about their level of interest in wars around the world. It found that Britons aged 18-24 are far more interested in the war in Gaza than they are in the Russia-Ukraine conflict or in US-China tensions. Among this group, 38% were very interested in Gaza and 28% were somewhat interested, compared with 19% and 44% who were very or somewhat interested in the war in Ukraine, respectively.

As the Israeli war enters its eighth month, public opinion has slowly shifted in Palestine’s favour. Historic polling shows that popular support for Israel was at its highest shortly after the 7 October attacks at 21%, but this figure has since fallen. Although young people were most sceptical of Israel before the attack, the overall level of support for the Jewish state over the same time frame has plummeted to 16%, according to YouGov figures.

As of this week, a new ceasefire proposal is on the table, and the US is pushing Israel to accept it. The deal would involve the exchange of prisoners for hostages and would pave the way for negotiations. A ceasefire has strong majority support in the UK.

@RedToothBrush That is one of the most considered approaches I've seen here.

I think that if we are going to debate the issue we need to consider a whole range of facts.

Before we start, Yes, Israel has the right to exist, but this is far more complicated than that.

One of the issues is that the Balfour declaration about managing Jewish immigration into what was then called Palestine was made for political reasons, one of which was to get political support from Jewish communities globally on the side of the allies in World war one. There is a reason that the letter was addressed to Lord Rothschild who was the leader of the Jewish community in the UK in order to communicate it to the Zionist federation. Prior to this there had been a Zionist movement ( that is the historically accurate name for it ) that helped Jews move to Israel ( including with funding) but the Jewish population of the area was extremely small, and the majority had been Muslim since about the 12th century, there hadn't been a Jewish majority since about the 5th century.

2ndly is to acknowledge that, using DNA tests both Palestinians and Israeli Jews ( actually a majority of Jews) are descended from people from the Levante, there is no "invader" who do not have their ethnic background coming from that place. It should also be noted that the Palestinians are probably descended from Jews who remained in the region post 63 AD., they converted first to Christianity and then to Islam later.

3rd is to acknowledge that both Israeli and Palestinian factions used terrorism in the 1920s and 30s in order to force their political points, and that the Arab/Palestinian population were the biggest victims in terms of deaths ( also note, the Israelis made the planner of one of the biggest terror attacks, The King David Hotel bombing, their 6th Prime Minister).

4th is to recognise that the horrors of the holocaust hurried the need for the creation of a Jewish state. It was absolutely necessary to do this.

5th is for the Israeli side to admit to the war crimes committed in 1947/48 with regard to the Nabka and not return to the myth of being attacked. The Israeli militia were by far the best armed forces in the region at that point too. The Israeli militias certainly did pursue a policy of expelling or encouraging Palestinian citizens to flee and that this policy had been discussed extensively by Ben Gurion prior to the state's creation, although he denied it was actively a policy, it was used.

It needs also to be acknowledged that whilst there was a necessity for Israel to be a state, it was never designed by the UN to be an ethno state, and those non Jews who were living in the land designated by the UN mandate to be Israel had been expected to stay. It should also be admitted that the division of land was unfair, giving the smaller and much newer population more of the land and the prime arable crop areas plus established ports like Haifa. Considering what are now known as Palestinians ( but were called Arabs in the 40s) owned two thirds of the land at this point, it is no wonder that the proposal was rejected by them at the time. There should have been a lot more care put into the plan, but the UK in particular wanted to withdraw quickly. The Arab league at the time were also right in stating that the partition of Palestine violated the UN Charter which gives the right to self determination.

Israel has the right to exist, but within the borders established by the UN Mandate, it also does not have the right to make Jerusalem its capital city or occupy other areas.

Terrorist action and attacks on Israeli citizens are abhorrent and should be denounced thoroughly as criminal attacks.

Israel has committed war crimes under various Geneva Conventions since 1948, and continues with these violations of international law to this day, and as much as it is claimed by supporters of Israel that the UN is anti-Semitic, Israel escapes sanctions unlike many other states (Iran for example). Under the same tone, the Palestinian movement has also used illegal terrorism for decades in order to further its cause and this has caused untold misery for the Palestinian population.

Reparations should be paid to the Palestinian Authority with the specific aim of rebuilding Gaza and building infrastructure in the West Bank.

We need to admit that there is No "good" side here and a truth and reconciliation committee like in South Africa might be a very good way to start

My question would always be, given the vast majority of Israeli citizens were born there, where do you want them to go?
Nearly always I get a flowery answer about how they can continue living in the new Palestine land. This shows a dangerous naivety.

Which facts? 90%, if not all, of your post 79Helene and I were referring to was fabrication.

@YourPinkDog

Can we address the same about Palestinian citizens? About the ones that are also refugees in other countries too?

@Aladdinzane I favour a two state solution, with Israel existing as a country. My comment was in relation to the poll about Israel not existing.

@YourPinkDog Do you think the way the UN mandate partitioned the region was fair?

@Aladdinzane I have read the history but take a different approach to many. We can not change the past. Whether what happened 80 years ago was the best approach or not is kind of moot at this point. We have to start from where we are now. We have Israel a country full of mainly people born in that country, it is their country. And we have people living in Gaza and the West Bank who should have a better quality of life. There needs to be a negotiated settlement that meets everyone's needs. But not the desire for Israel to be wiped out or River to the Sea "solutions".

I worked in NI during the "troubles" and heard people talking about history to justify atrocities and murders. It helps no one. We have to start from where we are now, not keep referring back to ancient wrongs. And 80 years ago is a long time ago.

@YourPinkDog

I think we have to acknowledge that what happened 80 years ago was unfair, it is the only .way to move forward. I don't want to use history to justify any atrocities.

BTW most of those chanting "from the river to the sea" just mean there should be a free Palestine, not that Israel should be destroyed. Although when it was first used by Likud it did mean that they wanted the control of the entirety of Palestine ( as did Ben Gurion who saw the partition as a step to Israeli control of the entire region).

I think we also need to allow the right of return for the decedents of the Nabka refugees and their compensation.

I don't think its possible to move forward without acknowledging the past, so anyone who has been involved in terror attacks must also be tried.

Good for them! I’m surprised so many disagreed, actually.

How old is he? If he’s school aged, wouldn’t the parents make sure he’s somewhat informed about the state of things and not relying of social media algorithms?When Oct 7 happened, I assumed most families would discuss it!

I imagine most young people think everybody else is stupid and uninformed.
And then when they grow older, those same young people are amazed at how much those stupid and uninformed people actually know.

This is what the majority of young people are aware of.

I don't think it's a case of them thinking that Israel should not exist. The majority understand the problematic founding of Israel. Hence why much of the Middle East refuse to recognise Israel.

Israel have caused a lot of problems themselves. No one is discarding or ignoring the horrendous Hamas attack. It was terrible but what Israel is doing now is far far worse.

However, its not exactly a surprise that hamas exists. The Palestinians have been oppressed by Israel and continue to have land illegally stolen from them. The west have ignored what Israel has been doing. It was only a matter of time before this happened.

Unfortunately Israel have responded by committing war crimes and genocide, this is not them defending their country. They have very concerning views about the Palestinians, even prior to the October attack.

My personal belief is that they are using this to take more Palestinian land.

I also do not think that anyone who supports Palestine is antisemitic. Most people are against Israels actions- not their religion.

But that is how it is? Amnesty international amongst others describes the Israeli State as an apartheid regime. What's happening in Gaza can only be described as ethnic cleansing and genocide. The Israeli State was founded on the principle of one race ruling another. How can that be justified. Abolishing the state of Israel isn't going to happen but a two state solution could. Saying Israel shouldn't exist is not saying all Jews should be killed. It's saying taking over another's people's land and then denying those people basic human rights is wrong. What's so terrifying about that?

I think it's because young people are dealing with things theoretically.

So if a country like France had millions of foreigners move there and they moved the French out of their homes, called France a different name and said it's their religious right to do this to France. Then the French keep calling for them to leave, then the newcomers keep killing French children etc. You'd probably see that it's easy to understand why that "new France" country could be seen as illegitimate, how the foreigners have no right to do this to France, what psychological torture this is to the real French people.

The problem of course is that the Israelis born today are a product of this ill thought out plan for Jews to occupy the land there. I don't blame those who are born there for seeing the place they were raised as legitimate and their home.

It's such a difficult one because there's no easy way to fix the situation now, it's too late.

If GCSE History taught everything, there would be no need for A Levels or Degree. A GCSE in History cannot make someone an expert or even claim to be very knowledgeable. This is part of the problem.

If a Synagogue was built 1500 years ago in Gaza, that means there were Jews in the area 1500 years ago. There were also Jews there more than 1500 years ago, and less than 1500 years ago. It wasn't until 1929 that the Arabs managed to clear all Jews out of Gaza.

Far from all Jews in Israel are European, and they were there before 1948. Stop denying facts just because they don't suit your narrative of choice.

Your version of events are very much disputed as they're incredibly inaccurate on so many levels and seem to be based on lies about Jews not having lived on the land until 1948 and then all Israelis being European, which is not only a lie but racist. You can't go around telling people they're white when they're blatantly not.

"Israel has always been damned either way. I hear literally no one talk about the atrocities of the October attack, people couldn't care less. Israel are expected to take the hit, to lie down and accept these horrific attacks. Who would accept that?! Would these young people you quote be ok if it happened to their sister, mother or friend?"

Palestine has endured the endless encroachments into territory since 1948. Not only was a unilateral decision taken to annex chunks of their land by foreign powers to 'create ' the state of Israel, the Israeli's have systematically occupied (aka 'settled') more and more of the land that they were not given, displacing Palestinians into a coral where ther are virtual prisoners.

Not anti-semitism, just fact. But say that in public, and you are accused of it. That's why people are keeping quiet

No-one is fragrant in this situation

The history of Israel is simply not taught none of my YP know much about the history faced with that they are going to side with propaganda because that is all they know

I expect it’s a gut response to being sick of Israel’s war crimes and enforced aparthied. Also some will know that Israel never existed 100 years ago and the land was taken. Most will also know about Hitler but not see it as relevant

People talk about a two state solution with a guarantee of Israeli statehood provided by US support as the solution. This is a fantasy and morally bankrupt. Was Rwanda divided in half with Tutsis and Hutus taking their own part? Was the black population of South Africa given 80% of the land and the whites 20%? That's what some whites wanted as I recall. Also what's fair about 1967 borders? 6 million Palestinians get less than 40% of the land and the Israelis keep all the best land that they took from the Palestinians through ethnically cleansing them and bombing their towns to rubble? Wake up people. Israel is a settler colonial project which has continually expanded its borders since its inception. The settlements in West Bank which everyone now finds easy to condemn have been developing non stop since 1967. This is not cheeky settlers taking their chance. This is because Israel is a Jewish supremacist state in its constitution: awarding a right of return to global Jews whilst withholding it from millions of people who were ethnically cleansed to obtain that land who are of the wrong religion. Why is it ok for us all to love cheek by jowl in a multi racial, multi religious country? But Palestinians who by the way lived like this for 800 years with their Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters are denied this? Truth & reconciliation is hard and risky. But one nation with everyone living as equal citizens is the only solution. Anything short of that upholds the right of a Jewish supremacist state and is therefore doomed to fail.

@mommyisbest over 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab Muslims.

I also used to believe in a one state solution but after 7 October I believe that a Jewish minority in the region would be lethally dangerous for them.

I didn’t remain silent and haven’t been silent. I was horrified as the vast majority of people were

it was a response to a post about Cyprus

I do not consider any child from any ethnic background to be of more or less importance

and I believe that is the crux of the issue that Palestinians have been treated as
less important

Quite. I can’t imagine not discussing this in detail with my teens. On the day of 7/10 and the weeks thereafter. That has blown my mind.

I'm sure Jews are very grateful to hear you assert that people don't think all Jews should be killed this time. Because, as you know, that has been a serious enterprise in the past. As has kicking all Jews out of a country. England itself kicked its Jewish population out in 1290 and banned them from returning (the first but not only European country to do so).

There is a long, long history (including very recent history in the countries surrounding Israel) of Jews being targeted and expelled or targeted and killed.

Israel was created off the back of the Holocaust where 6 million of them were systematically murdered.

Where would you like Jews to go where they are not in danger of being expelled or killed as they always have been in the past, if not a Jewish state?