To think that this really can't be true about young people's thoughts about Israel?

[Another2Cats]

So, I just read an article where they say they have done a poll of young people and, of those under 25, 54% said that they agree with the statement "the state of Israel should not exist". Just 21% disagreed.

Did the polling company manage to just randomly pick a bunch of people that feel this way, or is this genuinely how many young people feel?

IABU to think that this can't really be true? (I am quite prepared to accept that IABU and that this really is what a majority of young people believe)

The link is here:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/majority-of-young-britons-think-israel-should-not-exist/

and this is the text of the article:

A majority of Britain’s young people do not believe Israel should exist, a new UnHerd poll has revealed.

A preliminary finding of an exclusive survey of 1,012 voters about foreign policy, conducted by Focaldata and due to be released tomorrow on UnHerd, found that a striking 54% of 18-24-year-olds agreed with the statement that “the state of Israel should not exist.” Just 21% disagreed.

This finding dovetails with other UnHerd polling on the same issue. In a separate question, young respondents were asked who was more to blame for the war in Gaza. Half blamed the Israeli government, while a quarter answered Hamas. Only 19% responded “all equally”.

The war’s high degree of exposure online and on social media appears to have fuelled interest among Britain’s young. An AI-generated “all eyes on Rafah” graphic was shared more than 44 million times on Instagram recently, with pro-Palestine content also proliferating on TikTok. Critics have argued that the Chinese social media platform has deliberately promoted anti-Israel content, which TikTok has denied, citing the existing attitudes of its young user base.

These attitudes are reflected in further UnHerd polling, which asked young Britons about their level of interest in wars around the world. It found that Britons aged 18-24 are far more interested in the war in Gaza than they are in the Russia-Ukraine conflict or in US-China tensions. Among this group, 38% were very interested in Gaza and 28% were somewhat interested, compared with 19% and 44% who were very or somewhat interested in the war in Ukraine, respectively.

As the Israeli war enters its eighth month, public opinion has slowly shifted in Palestine’s favour. Historic polling shows that popular support for Israel was at its highest shortly after the 7 October attacks at 21%, but this figure has since fallen. Although young people were most sceptical of Israel before the attack, the overall level of support for the Jewish state over the same time frame has plummeted to 16%, according to YouGov figures.

As of this week, a new ceasefire proposal is on the table, and the US is pushing Israel to accept it. The deal would involve the exchange of prisoners for hostages and would pave the way for negotiations. A ceasefire has strong majority support in the UK.

@LordPercyPercy

No one is trying to justify the attacks.

Although people DO use them to justify the current war crimes committed by Israel.

Aren't Hamas also "supposedly a legitimate government"?

Just to make it clear, you are the only one in this discussion mentioning antisemitism. I'm just pre-empting the usual situation where someone says "I'm not being anti-Semitic" enough times that they start believing someone has actually accused them of being one. It happens on a daily basis and it's utterly exhausting.

But this isn’t the way forward either :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o

@MyMumIsBetterThanYours

"Aren't Hamas also "supposedly a legitimate government"?"

Well, no. They aren't recognised by the UN as a country or as the government of one, haven't had elections since 2006.

@MyMumIsBetterThanYours

"I'm just pre-empting the usual situation where someone says "I'm not being anti-Semitic" enough times that they start believing someone has actually accused them of being one"

Ah.

Israeli archives released in 1990s prove beyond any doubt that that is exactly what happened in 1940s. The Zionist movement developed lists of Palestinian villages with precise details showing who lived there, how many men, if they were armed, what their occupations were, the layout of towns, whether they were armed/defended. This was with a view to ethnically cleansing the land which is modern day Israel of its Muslim and Christian population- this was the stated aim of the founders of Israel- to create a majority Jewish state that required ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population.
Read Illan Pappe- The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
The Ottomans conducted censuses. We know that Jewish people were a small minority throughout Ottoman rule- during the British mandate they rose to 32% of the population of Palestine due to emigration.

Do you think the way the UN mandate partitioned the region was fair?

Based on population levels at the time then, no. However the Peel Commission in 1937 offered the Arabs 75% to 80% of the land, which would have been much fairer,and the Arabs rejected it. From 1948 the Arabs lost every war and have consequently lost land with it, so Palestinian territory gets smaller.
The current situation is that it was created,it does exist and it's not going anywhere.

I also don't understand - and if anybody here can enlighten me I'd be grateful - why a large chunk of the Mandate was hived off to create TransJordan post WW1 , now Jordan. Obviously the whole map of the region changed with the defeat of the Ottomans but I've never seen any rationale for that move at all.

But they were elected, right? On the basis of a charter that called for the eradication of Israel and the death to Jews? So they were elected on the basis that they would commit genocide. They were elected after already having been declared a terrorist organisation by many countries.

The UN doesn't consider Hamas a terrorist organisation. They consider them a political group. An elected political group.

But even before that, there was at least some Israeli/Jewish bit. So it leading you to the conclusion that "There are some bits of land that Israel claim today that they don't have the right to" may be valid, but it leading you to "Israel has no right to exist" isn't.

Is this supposed to be a trick question?

@MyMumIsBetterThanYours

Aren't Israel recognised by the UN as having been in breach of international and human rights laws for decades?

Hamas wasn't elected by a majority of Palestinians and it isn't recognised as a government by the UN as it doesn't recognise a Palestinian state.

Sorry there was simply no Israeli Jewish bit of Palestine. This is Israeli mythology and fantasy.
There were a series of towns and villages which were Muslim, Christian or Jewish with much mixing. For 800 years they coexisted.
To read the Peel Commission offer of 1937 as an offer of 75% of the land for Arabs is a distortion that even the Zionist historian Benny Wise wouldn't stomach. The Zionist Congress only accepted it because they saw those boundaries as temporary and they actually claimed all of the land from the river to the sea- this was their stated colonial wish as early as the Zionist Congress in 1937.
The lies and contortions that people have to do to deny the colonialist theft of land and culture is grotesque and the kids are actually seeing right through it.

Hamas were the biggest party following the election and won a parliamentary majority. 44.45% of those who voted, voted for Hamas. That's far from being an insignificant number.

Ok so what about before the 800 years you keep referencing? Who lived there then? Why have you decided history started 800 years ago?

No.

What is a Zionist?

What is an anti-Zionist?

Yes there were Jewish people in villages and towns numbering fewer than the Christian population (20%) with 75% being Muslim. How can this be the foundation of a Jewish state unless there is a colonial and ethnic cleansing aim? This was in fact the stated aim and objective discussed at the Zionist Congress of 1937 envisaged and fulfilled by Ben Gurion.

Do you really?

How many schools in England, the most populous region of the UK, teach about the conflict in MER?

27!

What percentage of students actually study MER conflict?

Fewer than 2%!

Sources attached - Guardian, The National, Parrallel History and Jewish Chronicle.

How many UK History GCSE exam boards teach the topic?

ONE! Just one.

Therefore, the vast majority of young people in the UK are NOT taught about the MER conflict nor are they especially well informed about it!

That's just the reality.

No one is justifying the Hamas attack.

However, it is important for people to understand why it happened. It didn't just occur out of the blue because Hamas decided they are against Israel.

There were also claims that Egypt warned Israel that Hamas were about to launch an attack days before https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047

This raises the question of why Israel ignored the warning? Israel deny it, but Egypt has nothing to gain from lying.

@MyMumIsBetterThanYours

"Hamas were the biggest party following the election and won a parliamentary majority. 44.45% of those who voted, voted for Hamas. That's far from being an insignificant number"

Still not a recognised government though AND as noted by other commentators Hamas at the time was pitching its self as more moderate.

However, I suspect you know that Hamas aren't recognised as a legitimate government and are attempting to blame the situation that is occurring on the Palestinian civilians.

If you believe that people have a right of return that pre-dates 800 years then you would be giving back large parts of Europe to the Romans, South Asia to Alexander the Great, huge parts of central, South Asia to Genghis Khan etc. And not only is that as bonkers as it sounds you also advocate that their ancient right to that land trumps the right of anyone who has lived in it for 800 years. Sorry we were here 2000 years ago. The whole argument is based on racism. We are better- we can rule this batter- our guns are bigger- it's ours. It's how Australia and America were colonised. Watch BBC iPlayer The Australian Wars and learn about the importance of erasing indigenous people once their land is stolen.

"pitching itself as more moderate" - I take it you didn't read their charter then.

Well. We are where we are, Israel exists and the majority of its population was born there so everyone in the region needs to come to terms with that.

But 800 years is the right amount of time to go back in history?

I never got an answer to this earlier, what came first - the temples or the mosque? That will give you a clue who the actual colonisers are :)

Anyway, all I'm getting from your posts is that Israel needs to hold out 800 years at which point they'll be considered the indigenous population. Only 725ish years to go 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

You just can't accept that you were wrong can you.

Whatever. I've lost the will to live.

Your argument was that young people are well informed as they study it at GCSE level.

The data does NOT even support your argument, so it falls down. 🤦‍♂️

Jesus wept....