To think a declining birth rate is a good (and inevitable) thing

[OptimismvsRealism]

Article in the times today about the "push for Britain to have more babies" on the basis that a declining population will cause economic shocks.

One of the proposals is "fertility checks in your 20s and education about declining fertility in biology classes".

I mean. Isn't it great that people only have babies if they really, truly want them? And isn't it good to have a smaller human burden on the planet (and fewer humans vying for declining jobs as tech replaces us at most of the things we used to do)?

I don't believe for a second that fertility checks would help anyone. Nobody is out there going "trala I'm 45 and really want five babies but just haven't felt like starting yet"!

It will be fine because state pension age will be 85 and lots of people won’t even make it to that age

Arent loads of public sector pensions linked to state pension age?

I think that supporting our existing working age adults to be productive members of society would be a start. In my line of work I meet so many young people who have never worked/contributed in their lives and would be much happier and more fulfilled if staying at home without a job wasn’t seen as their only option. The country can’t feasibly support an aging population and countless unemployed young adults who will likely never get jobs. Generational unemployment is also contributing to this problem because (working) working age adults need to support both the young and the old

The last thing I want for my daughters is to become breeding machines to produce future carers for “the elderly”.
One or two generations might suffer in future but eventually it will balance itself out. We need to stop treating our young people as if they owe us anything and let them live their lives.

Even if we die out, why would that be a bad thing? Species come and go, we are nothing special… in fact we’ve done more damage in our short span on this planet than any other species.

Many aren’t….I’m NHS…59 now …..I took mine at 57 tho was eligible from 55….my DP is from 65 ….so 2 years before state pension age of 67….

my friend will get her LA pension at 60

Not all women who wanted a child and couldn’t have one are sitting around thinking about what could have been and wallowing in regret. They are getting on with full and rewarding lives - not the lives they would originally have chosen but rewarding lives nevertheless.

The problem is lots cant afford to start families. The country needs young workers to provide doe an ageing population.

Immigration despite what farage says isnt high enough to bridge gaps.

Long tern we need more young people in the workforve

Citation needed I think. If you're asserting that only 2% of women remain childfree by choice, then I'm not going to believe that without evidence, because it seems far too low.

I'd readily believe that a meaningful minority of women are childfree not by choice, but not the 2% statistic.

The trouble is we’ve been sold the ‘you can have it all’ and it’s not actually true!

We have two and I’m trying to juggle my career and still see and be there for my children - workplaces are not supportive or flexible (teaching) and it’s hard.

If we could afford to I’d love 1 more (although we’d need IVF) but we can’t so that’s that. And also my career would probably take a even more of a dive.

I think now that women are used to working - people become used to a certain lifestyle and luxuries. Having children affects that.
Having children is so hard anyway and if you’re trying to juggle jobs and the cost of childcare then I’m not surprised people don’t want to try and ‘have it all’ anymore!

I do not have it all - I think I’m just left with the crumbs 😂

Don’t worry guys- I’m going to have loads! 😂

Gvts will have to pay women a proper salary for bearing & raising a child.
Wealthy people can only stay wealthy if there are enough of us in the lower ranks to work in the businesses & services and to buy the products

Aging population is a huge social issue that will have to be dealt with at some point, economically it is a disaster so no I don’t think declining birth rate is any kind of a positive

It doesn’t sound very appealing. My private pension is pretty shitty so I guess I will form part of the work to you die generation. Luckily it won’t take terribly long as no affordable healthcare.

In my opinion, it would be a terrible thing. The Earth here in all its glory, but no one to be awestruck at it, to look out at the stars and the depths of the universe, to think and reason and wonder about it, to study its nature and philosophise about its creation and write poetry about it? That is a desperate prospect.

I think humanity is wonderful and amazing and I really want our species to continue beyond the next few generations . We are getting better in so many ways and if particularly if we stop wasting time and money and brainpower and blood on fighting each other, we can turn our ingenuity to finding new technologies that are gentler on the Earth.

Historically, unemployment rates among under 25 year olds in the UK haven't been this low since the early 1970's.

@MarthaDunstable 90% of childless women age 45 being involuntary childless comes from a 2010 Dutch meta analysis mentioned in this Guardian article https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/02/the-desire-to-have-a-child-never-goes-away-how-the-involuntarily-childless-are-forming-a-new-movement There’s some evidence this is changing https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2024/01/survey-insights-on-childlessness-and-childcare-in-uk.page

I think if those are the government proposals it really shows how out of touch they are with the vast majority of the population. The reasons people are having fewer children are pretty obvious

-Wages vs actual cost of living

• House prices (rent or mortgage)
• Cost of child care
• Cost of higher education
• More people go into uni/recognise need to have a career to be able to afford children so have them later in life giving a smaller fertility window
• Grandparents are often working age so the support of family is less available

None of that will be resolved by fertility tests. Great way to pour money down the drain 🙄

There are too many young people who start life on the state and have no intention of working. Have children as a finance. Just saying.

Thanks. That 2% seems like such a surprisingly small number!

I’m glad that fewer people are having children they don’t want in case they ‘regret it later’.

Nothing that I’m aware of. Can you elaborate why you’ve asked me this question?

Im not sure that saying having 7 kids is too many is an entirely controversial or objectively incorrect statement

@TerrysNeapolitan
"There are too many young people who start life on the state and have no intention of working. Have children as a finance. Just saying."

Is there? By what metric? My children were raised in a very poor area. All of their friends are working and/or studying. According to official statistics unemployment among under 25's is the lowest it's been for 4 decades. Teenage pregnancies have plummeted. People are staying in education longer.

You said you feel sorry for those who suffer with infertility, and then immediately go on to say that's it's a good thing because then they can't have what you consider to be 'too many' children. I mean honestly, how dare you?

Firstly, it's none your damn business how many children couples end up having. Secondly, you've obviously never suffered recurrent miscarriages, passed clots for hours on end and have never experienced the pain, the heartbreak and the devastation that baby loss brings.

I'm sorry, but I've never felt so disgusted and pissed off with another human being as I do now.

I think you’ve seriously misread my post and need to read it again.

I did NOT “go on to say <infertility> is a good thing”. Unless you can point out where I said anything like this please?

You need to calm yourself down and read the post properly before massively over reacting and making ridiculous false allegations just because you didn’t read something properly