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... to be over the moon that Trump has been found GUILTY on all 34 charges?

692 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/05/2024 22:11

Whoop whoop!

OP posts:
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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/05/2024 10:35

verdibird · 31/05/2024 10:31

American here, and I am an academic historian. It is a personality cult. History will show you (as you well know) that there have been several demagogues in the past who promise to make things ‘great’ again. People get brainwashed. America can be v. insular; many Americans don’t have passports and don’t know about other cultures/ways of life. Globalisation is threatening to them.

The financial crisis, 9/11, COVID, school shootings/gun culture, opiate crisis, inflation making houses unaffordable, all these things have made people fearful. There is also little social safety net in the States and unbridled capitalism has eaten away at the middle class; huge wealth disparities. I’ve stayed in South Pasadena in affluent neighbourhoods, and see homeless camped out on the lawn of the public library/people living in cars. This has been normalised, and people worry that will happen to them. They are scared.

The American dream is starting to crumble, and because the States is a confluence of all sorts of cultures, and fairly secularised, who do people turn to for comfort? A demagogue who promises everything will be OK if they can be in power.

You are a historian and I am not, but to me that has worrying parallels with Germany immediately after WW1.

OP posts:
Ohthatoldchestnut · 31/05/2024 10:37

verdibird · 31/05/2024 10:32

Takes the Supreme Court to do that, and it has a right wing Republican majority. Won’t happen.

Exactly. Plus, there are too many problems with the justice system for people to be assured that it wouldn't be used for political purposes. Which feels a bit... Putin.

SerendipityJane · 31/05/2024 10:40

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/05/2024 10:31

I see that, but surely they could have found a way to put something in the constitution to prevent felons convicted by the US courts from becoming President?

Remember their origin story is that a bunch of brave revolutionaries who the British called traitors and criminals threw off the shackles of tyranny (a word that we tend not to respond to in the same way) to form a republic.

Part of the foundation of that was to remove the power of the state to oppress. Otherwise you could convict someone of any old trumped up charge and thus prevent them from running for office. Effectively replacing the overseas tyrant with a homegrown one.

TL;DR is the founding fathers did not want to exclude a felon from office. It's no accident. They didn't "forget". They didn't have a golf match and finish early. They thought about the possibility of a future government going rogue and tried to account for it.

That's my take on it having read more than I care to in helping a family member get their citizenship. And that is how they see it.

Itsthedress · 31/05/2024 10:40

I’m so worried about America. There’s a guy I follow on social media in a professional capacity. He’s got a degree in finance from the University of Alabama, he’s no idiot (you’d think). He’s a family man, lay preacher at weekends, and 99% of his posts are just normal stuff about his kids going to uni, going fishing, the family’s new puppy, etc.

But he’s just posted this on Facebook! I mean what the actual?! The moral gymnastics boggle the mind. I’m afraid America is in a very scary place.

... to be over the moon that Trump has been found GUILTY on all 34 charges?
Blackcats7 · 31/05/2024 10:41

It is ridiculous that America has a choice between a psychopath and a man of 84 as president but I would rather have a decent normal man of any age than said psychopath.

SerendipityJane · 31/05/2024 10:42

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/05/2024 10:34

Fair enough. Thank goodness we have a totally separate judiciary here. Long may that last.

The irony is, the US system is based on the English system. Explicit separation of powers.

Wallaw · 31/05/2024 10:44

Lonelycrab · 31/05/2024 10:25

American expat here. MAGAs will continue to support him no matter what. But, more moderate Republicans may hesitate…they won’t vote for Biden, so they may not vote at all. This may be just enough votes to put Biden in the Oval Office again

I hope @verdibird is right here. Although this judgement has obviously riled up his fanatics to new levels, I can’t see it gaining him many moderate, not completely insane voters. Surely the election will be won or lost by how this middle ground votes? His fanatics were always going to back him regardless, and them being 10 times as angry now will not mean that their individual votes somehow carry more weight.

I guess I’m relying on the idea that there can’t be that many completely mental Americans to vote him in after all he’s done, can there?Hmm

Yeah, the fanatics are about 30% of the electorate and nothing's going to change their minds. I do think this will whip them into a frenzy, but highly doubtful it's going to win him new supporters, and it might push some undecideds and Haley voters away. The big issue is the geographical distribution of the fanatics - unfortunately, he could win with a minority vote again.

Ohthatoldchestnut · 31/05/2024 10:45

Blackcats7 · 31/05/2024 10:41

It is ridiculous that America has a choice between a psychopath and a man of 84 as president but I would rather have a decent normal man of any age than said psychopath.

Historically, the psychopaths have been more successful. If enough of the population believe the psychopath's interests align enough with theirs, they'll go for the psycho every time.

speyside · 31/05/2024 10:45

america is not our country its for their citizens to decide and by the way he is very popular in America & the alternative is an 85 year old with dementia - trump is better choice so what he had a few flings so did Clinton and he s immensely popular in my opinion its been a witch hunt

PuttingOutFirewithGasoline · 31/05/2024 10:49

Has Trump done his speech yet, it wasn't the one after the verdict but night I saw something.

Wallaw · 31/05/2024 10:49

queenofarles · 31/05/2024 10:09

Don’t understand Why are people rejoicing ?
yes no one is above the law , but in this case it seems it’s very partial and selective going after Trump.

Because that's the way it works. If you're the person who commits a crime, you're the one they select to go after.

SerendipityJane · 31/05/2024 10:49

He’s got a degree in finance from the University of Alabama, he’s no idiot (you’d think).

Take it from me, qualifications are no indicator of intelligence.

Bululu · 31/05/2024 10:51

SerendipityJane · 31/05/2024 10:49

He’s got a degree in finance from the University of Alabama, he’s no idiot (you’d think).

Take it from me, qualifications are no indicator of intelligence.

Did not people make a bit fuss about Trump voters not being university educated? Do not be surprised people comment on this.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/05/2024 10:51

SerendipityJane · 31/05/2024 10:42

The irony is, the US system is based on the English system. Explicit separation of powers.

I am no expert here, but certainly currently our judiciary are totally separate from the government. Judges are not political appointees. The US has gone down a different route, with most civic positions elected, haven't they? I can see some advantages there, but the Roe vs Wade ruling shows the potential problems.

OP posts:
verdibird · 31/05/2024 10:53

Wallaw · 31/05/2024 10:44

Yeah, the fanatics are about 30% of the electorate and nothing's going to change their minds. I do think this will whip them into a frenzy, but highly doubtful it's going to win him new supporters, and it might push some undecideds and Haley voters away. The big issue is the geographical distribution of the fanatics - unfortunately, he could win with a minority vote again.

Yup it depends on the electoral college. Remember, Hilary Clinton won the popular vote when Trump was elected the first time. I’m just hoping there are enough Republicans in the swing states/states with a large number in the college that see sense. Not all Republicans are MAGAs.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/05/2024 10:54

speyside · 31/05/2024 10:45

america is not our country its for their citizens to decide and by the way he is very popular in America & the alternative is an 85 year old with dementia - trump is better choice so what he had a few flings so did Clinton and he s immensely popular in my opinion its been a witch hunt

He's not been prosecuted for adultery and telling lies about affairs. He's attempted to dodge taxes by treating a payoff (not tax deductible) as a legal bill (tax deductible). The rest of us would expect to be prosecuted if found out doing something like that, why shouldn't Trump be?

OP posts:
PuttingOutFirewithGasoline · 31/05/2024 10:54

Whose got a degree in fiancé?

poetryandwine · 31/05/2024 10:57

verdibird · 31/05/2024 10:32

Takes the Supreme Court to do that, and it has a right wing Republican majority. Won’t happen.

The way to ‘put something in the Constitution’ is for 2/3 of both Houses of Congress to approve it and then 3/4 of the 50 states to ratify it. The Supreme Court plays no part

The Supreme Court interprets the Constitution and may strike laws it deems unconstitutional

Wallaw · 31/05/2024 10:57

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/05/2024 10:51

I am no expert here, but certainly currently our judiciary are totally separate from the government. Judges are not political appointees. The US has gone down a different route, with most civic positions elected, haven't they? I can see some advantages there, but the Roe vs Wade ruling shows the potential problems.

America is complicated in that Federal judges are appointed but state and county judges are elected. There is some interesting research that appointed judges are actually better at administering law, or have been traditionally, anyway. The problem now is the very long arm of the Federalist Society which has been working for a very long time on remaking the federal judiciary into an extremist arm of the religious right. If you want a depressing education, google both Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society.

Wickedlywearynamechanged · 31/05/2024 11:00

speyside · 31/05/2024 10:45

america is not our country its for their citizens to decide and by the way he is very popular in America & the alternative is an 85 year old with dementia - trump is better choice so what he had a few flings so did Clinton and he s immensely popular in my opinion its been a witch hunt

It is for American citizens to decide but it affects the rest of the world to a greater or lesser degree. unfortunately.

Anneofa1000days · 31/05/2024 11:05

I must say that DT did like and respect our Queen, more than a lot of other presidents or their wives.

EasternEcho · 31/05/2024 11:06

speyside · 31/05/2024 10:45

america is not our country its for their citizens to decide and by the way he is very popular in America & the alternative is an 85 year old with dementia - trump is better choice so what he had a few flings so did Clinton and he s immensely popular in my opinion its been a witch hunt

American politics and policies have a far reaching effect on the rest of the world. It's foolish to think otherwise The US dollar is the world's reserve currency to begin with. An example is Trump's threat to pull the US out of NATO.

therealcookiemonster · 31/05/2024 11:08

Nanaof1 · 31/05/2024 04:55

I can hope and pray neither candidate gets a vote? Then maybe Mickey Mouse or Snoopy will win....both better choices.

Me-I will write myself in for my vote because my conscience won't allow me to vote for the "lesser of two weevils" any longer. Or maybe go with Mickey since Minnie would be quite the fashionable first mouselady.

we can send over Lord Binface? he would make a really good president/alien overlord

turbonerd · 31/05/2024 11:12

CanadianJohn · 30/05/2024 22:23

Don't forget there are other political leaders who have been tried and convicted, jailed, and even executed.

Gandhi
Hitler
Mandela
and I hate to say it... Jesus Christ.

Hitler was not tried nor executed.
He died by suicide when he realised his Dritte Reich couldn’t conquer the slavic areas and the Allies advanced in on him.

Mandela was not executed either. He sat 25 years in prison, but then became the first Black president of South Africa after apartheid was abolished.

Ghandi was assasinated.

Please do a quick Google before you post wild inaccurasies.