To not accept this offer from ex to give the dc £10k and instead pursue CM

[stripycats]

I have posted about my financial arrangements with ex several times over the years (under different user names) and had loads of good advice. This morning he has made me an offer and I would massively appreciate some advice on it please. I'll try to be brief but backstory is obviously relevant but if anyone does have time I would love some advice.

I was main breadwinner in marriage (lasted 8 years, together for 10) and he had always been shit with money - was well into his 30s when we met with no career, which I had. He does bits and bobs of freelance writing and works on his music. He was a decent enough househusband when our dc were little. When we split our assets amounted to £30k and he had no hope of getting a mortgage alone so selling the house was never even mentioned and I bought him out and gave him £15k with an agreement to give him an additional £10k when ds2 is 21 (in 6 years time now). He wanted to move out as he wanted 'a break'. He never wanted to stay or be the one responsible for the dc. We had had money for a deposit from his dm but I had made all mortgage repayments and he had decided we should take a remortgage to fund improvements which were not essential. He also pushed for us to move to a bigger house thereby increasing the mortgage just a year before we split, despite knowing he was cheating. He didn't make a claim against my pension. We split 10 years ago and he has the dc around 4 nights per fortnight.

After the split it became clear he was never going to put his hand in his pocket for the dc beyond feeding them when they were with him. He still saw paying as my job. They had no clothes or toys there until I provided them etc. I tried to get him to pay for stuff like swimming just to make a contribution as things were quite tight for me then but he wouldn't so I opened a CMS claim, really just to make the point. There was a period of about 18 months a few years ago when he was paying around £100 per month but other than that he has either just not paid or they've said his income is too low to have to pay anything - that was after moving to direct pay. About 3 years ago he inherited approx £200k and bought a property outright. Nothing was given to dc.

My income has recently gone up following promotion but I'm on my own and solely responsible for everything financially. I earn approx £65k now and have around £20k in savings. Both dc are likely to go to uni in the next few years, which I worry about as on my income they won't get much of a loan. I have saved separately for that via their child trust fund things and both have around £9k in those, which, together with the £20k means we should be alright. But just. I recently told ex my fears about uni as he was talking about taking the dc away for a fortnight, which he has never done before and I questioned why he was contributing nothing if taking two week holidays. He didn't reply. What I really want is for him to write off the £10k and then I would be more than happy to pay all costs for the dc going forward, which I have been doing anyway but the £10k hanging over me is a massive issue and worry.

Today he has suddenly messaged telling me he has taken out a loan to help with the dc uni costs and has received a letter from the CMS saying he will have to pay £80 per week from now on. No idea why this would be the case as they wouldn't be aware of a loan would they and it wouldn't affect his payments anyway surely? So presumably along with the loan he has got some better paying work, though if he has I doubt it will last as it never does with him. Anyway, he is saying he will put £5k in each dc's bank account tomorrow if I cancel the CMS claim and say we have come to an agreement.

What should I do? I don't trust him. Why take a loan out for the dc at least a year before they need it? It would make more sense to tell me he doesn't want the £10k. I don't care about the CMS anyway and in any case I highly doubt £80 per week would last for any length of time so I have no issue with not having that, but I want the £10k cancelled. How do I handle this in a way that's fair to the dc and doesn't leave me vulnerable to his shit and irresponsible behaviour with money?
Thank you so much if you have read this far!

No, I'm not the ex!

I have a love of figuring out "riddles" as it were, and this seemed an odd situation so I've dug around a bit.

The rules re CMS are the same as CB, and it doesn't continue into Uni education. You'll notice the term "non-advanced" education - that means not Uni.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance#frequently-asked-questions

And up to 40% of income is taken in order to clear arrears in 2 years

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7774/

I think it may be a bit more than the £10K I originally thought though. Give me a minute and I'll crunch some numbers so you can make an informed decision.

Absolutely hilarious that CMS doesn't continue into university yet the resident parents' income is used to work out how much students can borrow! Fuck me - so logical...

OK, here we go. I've had to make some assumptions from the information given which are:
DC1 born in 2007 and therefore leaves non advanced education in 2025
DC2 born in 2009 and therefore leaves non advanced education in 2027
The arrears are £6K
That exes income isn't going to change significantly.

2024&25 CMS are asking for £8320 over 2 years. This pays off £6k, the further 2320 is the ongoing maintenance amount for 2 DC at 16% of income. =He owes you £8320 in 2024-25 combined

2026 - DC1 no longer eligible, -so maintenance payable is now 12% of income. £2320/2=£1160 per year at 16%. Divide by 16 and then multiply by 12 to get 12% of income payable per year for 1 child = £870 owed to you in 2025

2027 - as above £870 owed to you in 2027

CMS then ends.

So the total amount is £8320+870+870=£10,060

Obviously this isn't super accurate due to assumptions and rounding etc, but it does show his £10K offer is about right. You'll know whether it needs tweaking due to your DC's ages etc

I would say, since the £10K payable when DC2 is 21 bothers you, then ask him to legally cancel this and then cancel the CMS. This is also easiest for him a he doesn't have to pay anything, just continue to not have some money that he already doesn't have IYSWIM. So from his POV it looks like he's getting away with not paying anything, but from your POV you actually get the CMS he should be paying plus all the areas paid back by not having to hand the £10k over in the future.

If you're too greedy and ask him for too much, I suspect he'll just say no, and you'll end up with him not paying you via CMS, as he's already proved that he just doesn't do that reliably, and off course he could always stop working/work cash in hand to avoid making payments.

And yes, I have realised that I'm very sad, and should probably have better things to do with my time evenings than work out calculations! I have a geeky, logical side though, and quite like challenges. Genuinely, I hope this will help you make an informed decision.

So it says on the website in terms of arrears that it depends on how the money is paid to you whether they automatically follow it up or not - if he pays you directly you have to contact them about the arrears and they will then take action.

Well, @mrsm43s I feel I have to thank you for working all that out but, while I get that the 'geeky' (I think you called it) side of you likes the figures and number-crunching, I can't believe you don't have a moral side that puts the rights of children to be supported by their parents above the rights of a middle-aged man to have as easy a life as possible while hanging on to as much of his cash as possible while someone else supports his kids on her own?

He has no intention of paying you anything op. Don't cancel that claim unless you have the evidence in your hands that he has transferred funds and confirmed the 10k to you. I don't think that will happen though

Oh, I'm not making a moral judgement in any which way. FWIW, I probably agree with you more morally than you think, but I'm looking at what gives you the best actual outcome.

Should your ex support your children more? Yes, of course. Will he? Probably not. History has shown you that.

If you can make an agreement on the £10K amount, you are £10K better off. If you push for more, he will likely refuse. He has a history of not paying CMS. It's exceptionally unlikely that that will change and he will suddenly find a sense of responsibility. So if you push too hard or for too much, you run the risk of ending up with nothing at all.

I'm being pragmatic. £10K is roughly the amount legally due (and I think it's important that you would know that so that if you accept it you will feel not legally shortchanged - although of course morally shortchanged nonetheless). It is surely better that you end up £10K better off than you don't.

If you could get the £10K owed written off, I think you should see that a victory given the circumstances. Of course it would be better if he was a different (better) person, and had taken full responsibility for parenting and financially supporting his children. But he didn't and he won't and you have to work with the situation you're in.

I wouldn't be agreeing anything with him if he's that untrustworthy and suddenly had all that money but didn't give his children a penny, then suddenly has even more to splash around but has never had a stable income. He owes thousands in maintenance and still more going forward. I wouldn't be cancelling any claims with someone this slippery and getting every penny in maintenance AND making him write off the £10k. Cheeky fucker has never provided for his children.

I'd be ro gong CMS and see what has been happening.

Thanks @mrsm43s what you've said does make some sense to me but I will stick to my original plan. Really, him giving the dc some money towards university costs should be seen separately from the CMS liability he has. Paying his CMS dues shouldn't preclude him contributing if he has money, which it seems he has for once. Unless he's going to say to them that he won't give them anything as he's contributed to their upbringing?! That money of course won't go near my hands, quite rightly.

I'd suggest seeking legal advice begore agreeing to this.

The CMS portal will give you some additional info. Such as what his income was last year. Have a look! There may be some surprises for you on there.

Maybe he does have a pension. Perhaps the reason he wasn't interested in yours, was because he secretly had his own.

I've been trying to get on the portal but have never been on before so don't have the PIN - I'll give them a ring in the morning. Would love to see where he's really at financially!

Why the sudden urgency to offload a load of cash into his children’s trust funds? Does he have any form for the kind of activities where someone may want to “wash” some money?

I'd say that it's bullshit that he's taken out a loan to help with uni costs. More like he has inheritance money still left.

He just doesn't want to pay for his kids because he's a selfish shit of a father.

I don't know what I'd advise doing. But I wouldn't trust him at all.

Definitely this. If you look at how much he would have to pay over 6 years then it's closer to 20k than 10k.

Well, I have just managed to get on the portal and am now more confused as there is nothing there about the £80 per week payment. My payment is still showing as £30 per week, which is what it was changed to a few weeks ago. Also, it is saying he has missed the first £30 payment, which was due yesterday! Now we use collect and pay (I previously thought it was called direct pay) so I don't understand how he can miss a payment as the whole point is they take it from his account? And if he is offering to pay £10k to dc immediately he must have £30 but presumably in another account they don't have access to - is that even allowed? And it still doesn't solve the mystery of why he thinks he has to pay £80 per week now - surely the portal would be updated when he was? His income for last year is showing as just £15k so no evidence of any lump sum they are aware of.

It's bloody odd.

It could be in cash or a girlfriend or family's bank account. Do he have form for dodgy enterprises?

No not at all, just form for being a lazy, workshy 'artist' 😂.

Is it possible that the £30 is the ongoing maintenance amount and £50 is an arrears payment, which might be listed/documented separately? (I've no experience with claiming or paying CMS, so don't know how the portal works).
That seems likely as its not far from my estimated calcs yesterday (I had it as £58 arrears payment and £22 ongoing, but obviously I was working with rough figures, not actuals).

In a nutshell, if you can get £10K in your hand from this man, I would do it. He's not going to reliably pay the CMS. Any money you get from him is better than all of the promises to pay in the world. He's not going to keep up CMS payments - he's proved that much to you.

Personally, I'd prefer the £10K written off rather than £5K per child as firstly it's CMS arrears which is your money not the children's and secondly, he would only need to sort legals, not actually hand anyone money, which I think he's more likely to do. I think he'd come up with excuses not to pay the money and you'd just end up caught up in the ongoing cycle of having to chase him and no money actually ever materialising.

Once the £10K is written off, and once the children go to Uni, there's no harm in trying to get him to make some contribution to the children's Uni at that point. He might find a direct contribution to them more palatable than CMS.

@stripycats

The letter you received should say £80 from X date - so it may be that the £30 is due up until say - July 15 then it will change to £80 per week.

Arrears aren't included on a standard calculation as CMS cannot guarantee the arrears being paid - so they don't include them on the payment schedule.

Also, on my portal it says direct pay - it's always said that regardless of what service I use...... it's always said that even though it's taken straight from his wages - (DEO) so you might want to call them and check what's actually going on lol

His wages would show as what he has been paid the previous tax year depending when the review was done.
Also, the lump sum could have come from somewhere else - not earned income - it could have come from dividends - which CMS don't routinely include in their calculations you have to ask the FIU to have a look and dig into his finances to find this information.

Have you ever asked CMS to dig into his finances? They don't look into account per say - they literally go off the HMRC tax return; unless you ask them to go digging further they will do the bare minimum work to get the children the money they're entitled too

Just make sure you keep your cms claim open. Then when you'll have a written record of his arrears. Hopefully you'll be able to use that against the 10k you owe him.

Perhaps things will become clearer after your next annual review with cms or following his next tax return.

It's horrendous, isn't it?