To think that improving state schools needs people to pay an e.g. a state school tax?

[Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney]

What with the current hoo ha about VAT on private school and commentary about equality and privilege.. wouldn’t it make sense to vastly improve state schools? And in order to do so obviously the government needs more cash.

Isn’t it reasonable therefore to ask anyone using state schools, to pay a bit of tax for that, in order to improve all said schools from their (often) current dire state?

I’d modified it. See above. Can’t change the op though. Anyway it’s good to see the development.

No I didn't think it was either.

Move on. I have. See above.

Since I have absolutely no professional background or knowledge about education, I am not proposing anything. Other more knowledgeable posters have made useful suggestions. But I do live in a democratic country where we vote in a Government who are responsible for education so I will use that vote. Your suggestion would further contribute to a system whereby the more money you have the better education you can buy. We are a wealthy country and it is about the redistribution of that wealth and how that money is used rather than a specific tax for education. Your resentment at having to pay more for private education is coming accross strongly.

Our school asks parents for donations on a regular basis, and it’s an affluent area so they receive a lot of funding. To be honest I think it’s probably the most equitable way as parents give what they can afford. But it does feed into the house price issue. The more affluent an area the more the school and students will benefit. If you start taxing parents to use state schools across the board those already struggling will only struggle more.

Q

Because of the PP's last paragraph. The narrative on taxation in this country is deeply entrenched and Labour are keen to get elected.

I'd expect a significant shift in narrative over the next few years and suspect a major restructuring of the tax system as a first term design project and second term implementation.

My children are at different primaries, both state, but one mainstream and one specialist. Both absolutely fantastic. They could do with a lot more money, but what they do with the little they have is absolutely miraculous. They have the exact same problems as all state schools, and constantly strive to keep abreast of the latest cuts.

This.

Well, I certainly wouldn’t be suggesting a separate tax for users of state education. This would simultaneously drive more people into poverty, increase levels of crime and antisocial behaviour, reduce productivity levels in this country (thus reducing GDP and our tax receipts) and basically take a huge step back from civilised society. The consequences would be enormous and your idea is very short sighted and, frankly, ridiculous.

I would instead do my very best to lobby people to vote so that a proper, sensible government can start to fix the fucking shambles that this country is in. For the last 14 years we’ve had a government which doesn’t invest in education and healthcare because the money is wasted left right and centre on corruption, cronyism and piss poor management.

I would also look to impose windfall taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals and crack down on tax evasion.

But actually none of my opinion really matters because funding public services is absolutely not my area of expertise so I don’t present any of my ideas as a bulletproof solution to a complicated problem. Unlike you.

That is not how tax works. Tax is based on ability to pay. You don't pay more NHS tax if you get cancer, or more defence tax if you live closer to a boarder.....

The tax that private school parents are complaining about is VAT, which we all pay, every day, on goods and services. So if you can't pay the VAT, you don't get the goods or service, whatever that may be

I would like to see private schooling abolished. VAT on school fees is a baby step forward. But a step is better than standing still.

On a different subject, OP you seem to be suggesting by your repeated questioning about how to improve state schools, that they face insurmountable problems and are failing. Neither of these things are true. Admittedly I teach in London, and the state schools here are good, but the biggest problems state schools face can very much be solved with increased funding.

Teacher recruitment and retention, reduced workload, specialist teachers (MFL, PE, drama, etc), SEN support and provision, increased mental health care and support, EAL specialists, better and wider sport and arts opportunities, sustained teacher training... that's largely cashflow. It's also about management and curriculum demands and education as a political football. But money would help. A lot.

Yes I cant see any problem with those on benefits, or nurses relying on food banks, being asked to pay £1500 a year for their child's 'free' state education. How could they possibly go wrong

Do you understand the concept of free state education? Presumably not. For reference it's the same as NHS free treatment. Or are you also proposing to tax the ill?

How would you identify those who ‘use’ schools? Pupils? their parents? their future employers? those who use services and skills taught to those pupils throughout their lives?
Education is a right.

So everyone pays more tax. Along with increased rent / mortgage / council tax/ utilities etc and this will reduce poverty?

I’m not in the UK. My child attends an excellent state school. Part of the reason it is excellent is because they charge fees. How they are legally allowed to charge fees I do not understand, but they do.

We pay a materials fee for books and computers and the beginning of the year. That has been going on since I was a child so isn’t hugely surprising.

then we have to pay fees for some classes. Some are for required classes. Some are for optional ones. This basically means that poorer children don’t really have the choice to take some of the more expensive classes because they have to consider the cost. How the school is allowed to charge for required classes eludes me.

We can easily afford all of it so we just pay it and are happy our child is at such a great school. I don’t like the ethics of the system, but my discussions with the school system are focused on making sure my child’s SN are properly supported so I have no political capital left.

I no longer have DC in school but am happy to pay more tax which could be used for a variety of services, including education. So if Labour get in, increase tax and put VAT on school fees the I am ok with that.

It’s not like VAT on school fees has suddenly come out of the blue is it ? All this bullshit about 6 weeks notice - the policy has been discussed on here a lot for some time.

Ah I see. Well I do agree. I and lots I know would pay more tax, if we knew it was going to benefit education and the NHS

Based on discussion with teachers. The issues in SOME state schools is societal. Children who have basically not been parented, have zero respect for their teachers or for education generally. Parents unquestioningly back their child every time
not the school. This is a deeper societal issue and won’t be solved by upping school funding. Why it’s less acute in middle class areas that value education and school authority.

I'd like them to do both.

'the state education' - are you missing a word there, such as system?
In short I would vote for a party who actually get their priorities right, in terms of spending.

It's funny though how school academy trusts can afford to pay their CEO's an average of £150,000 - and some as much as £200,000 - but can't afford the basics for kids.

You'll find schools are like the NHS now IMO, no matter how much money you pump into the system there will be very little difference on the ground. Pump in more money and those at the top will just get paid more and more while most of the problems at the bottom remain. They still won't be able to recruit enough teachers, there won't be properly trained pastoral care, enough school nurses or visits from the Ed psych to go round and there won't be nearly enough SEN schools for kids that need them.

But the government can magic up 2.5 billion to force kids to volunteer for one day a month at 18.

I think the only way to improve state education is to ban private schools.

Yes, state schools need a lot more funding. They should be a priority. The fact that the vast majority of the highest earners, senior politicians and party donors buy better education for their own children - from private schools or through spending £1million+ on homes in the catchment areas for the best state schools - means that the people who make the decisions on how much funding state schools should receive have no skin in the game.

Education needs more money but all the money goes to the wrong places. Here are some ideas from a teacher - abolish ofsted it would save a fortune. Instead make head teachers conduct inspections. Head teachers seem to do very little for their money in my experience. Reduce head teachers salaries. Some get paid more than the Prime Minister. Head teacher salaries have spiralled upwards 'to attract the best' whilst ordinary teacher salaries have done the opposite.

Cut spending on elaborate IT systems in schools. When money is tight it should go to the frontline. There's no point spending a fortune collecting and analysing data if teaching in the school is poor and behaviour is atrocious.

A less popular suggestion. Abolish most teaching assistants and instead have fewer specially trained SEN teachers working in hubs in all schools. TAs are often great individuals used very poorly.

Increase teachers pay so teaching is once again a profession which attracts the best. Cut bullshit courses and only recruit teachers who are highly literate.