Page 6 | Tracing stillborn babies - feeling stunned

Nubnut · 2024-05-28T08:12:44+00:00

I just read an article about how until the 1990s stillborn babies were often taken away from their parents without them seeing them: [[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/28/you-dont-forget-as-a-mother-the-british-parents-finally-reunited-with-their-stillborn-babies https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/28/you-dont-forget-as-a-mother-the-british-parents-finally-reunited-with-their-stillborn-babies]] I knew this already having listened once to an interview with an elderly woman who was just sent home with some drugs to stop the milk and told to move on. I remember listening to the interview and having to sit down on the floor because of the idea of it. I have not experienced it myself but it is something everyone can partly understand, and I think it is an issue that concerns us all. I find it really hard to understand how and why this could have happened. Especially because it is not a classic case of it being a men's world and not thinking through the experiences of women, because in this case, we're talking about maternity wards staffed by a majority of women. How could this be allowed to happen? My heart is breaking for these parents. Does anyone who has any experience of the sector have any more thoughts about why this happened? I feel so stunned and I would like to understand more.

DearestGentleReader · 28/05/2024 20:20

Topofthemountain · 28/05/2024 19:09

She took it very matter of fact that these babies were never meant to be, didn't give them names, doesn't regret not having a grave for them and struggles to relate to current culture on baby loss. And honestly as the surviving child I'm glad I was never in their shadow growing up.

I was fairly old before I found out about my brother, and it wasn't direct. She was comforting someone else and I think she 'forgot' I was stood next to her. As the youngest of the three surviving children I did sometimes have thoughts about my own existence and would I have existed had he not passed away.

I know a family who's first child was stillborn, the subsequent children are very much involved in their grief (for want of a better expression) and are regularly taken to the graveside to spend time with their sibling, having birthday celebrations etc. I understand that it is not my story to tell, but do wonder how the children will feel as they grow up.

On reflection of my own experience I do think that that would have made how I did feel even worse, maybe that I wasn't good enough or that I was being wished away.

I don't want to go back to it being a hidden thing, but I do think that overly involving subsequent children isn't good either.

We were actively encouraged to involve the other kids (my DSD and DS1) when DS2 was stillborn in 2020. Christmas baubles to decorate, little mementos to share, a note from the midwives to the siblings, even a specially commissioned picture book to explain to young kids what has happened were all in the memory box we were given by a baby loss charity at the hospital.
The nightmare for me would be for my kids to find out the way you did. They know they have another brother, they know where he is, they know why mummy cries sometimes, they know that they are loved and he is loved and they like having a bonus cake on his birthday!
I have an ex who found out as an adult that he had had a twin brother who died shortly after birth and he felt so betrayed, and feels terrible that he was so hard on his mum for being weird on his birthday every year. That was what made my mind up to be honest with the kids.
I'd never want them to feel like they live in his shadow or anything so we don't bang on about it, it's just something they have always known about. Time will tell if we have done it right. What a minefield.

Marylou62 · 28/05/2024 20:35

triballeader · 28/05/2024 09:37

In 1990 I had my eldest son. He was born preterm and smaller than shop clothes so I ended up making clothes for him. This caught the attention of one of the midwife’s. Her name was Elaine Thorpe and she was one of the very first bereavement officers in the UK to provide any level of compassion and care for parents facing the death of a baby around their birth. She asked if I could help her to help parents by making even smaller clothes for babies stillborn under 3lb. At the time no one made anything. My heart sank when she described how she did the best she could with dark green paper towels and surgical steel . At that time it was rare for parents to even have one Polaroid photo of their baby to keep. The film was expensive and finance boards did not see the point of spending money on stillborns. Most parents refused to see their babies worried about what they imagined they would look like.Staff rarely thought to describe them and did not have the resources to ‘dress’ a baby to show to their parents. I joined with SANDs BLISS and the shared campaign to get stillbirth recognised before 28 weeks. I still remember the very first memorial service for such babies held by the hospital chaplains and SANDS. So many long ago beareaved parents came it was clear there was a real need to acknowledge brief lives. I campaigned with others at hospital board level to bring change. I made tiny Moses baskets from 30cm woven baskets, endless hats, wrap round gowns, designed clothes, teeny bears and anything that I had the skill and time to do that might help. The thirty years I raised my assorted tribe I continued to work for change so that babies born still under 24 weeks and even before 12 weeks would be given some dignity in death.

In my lifetime I have seen great improvements in care for bearded parents but tbh most of what we have and do now is still down to the various charities and parental fundraising efforts. It is they who pay for the bereavement rooms and suites, it is they who pay for the memory boxes and keepsakes, it is they who fought for help with funeral costs and bereavement leave. I have now stepped aside in the hope that those who come after me will continue what was started by the founders of SANDs and work to bring compassionate and positive changes for those who will have no choice but to face the death of their baby in the future.

Thank you for making it 'normal' for people coming after you.. parents and nurses..
I worked in a neonatal unit in the mid 80s and made tiny backless embroidered christening gowns that could be laid over and tucked in around tiny preterm babies that would be very hard to dress because of all the tubes and wires..
I remember some families in tears because it bought a bit of normality when the babies were being blessed/christened or being given other religious rites..

HighOnMaiden · 28/05/2024 22:49

StopGo · 28/05/2024 20:18

In the 70s,80s & 90s my late dad was a Funeral Director. Often when he picked up a deceased person a late miscarriage/ still birth/ neonatal baby would be tucked in with the adult. Not a lack of respect just a hope the baby wasn't on their own for their final journey.

I was told this about my sister. The baby grave and pauper grave were the same area I believe and I was told she’d been put with an elderly gent.

Needanewname42 · 28/05/2024 23:18

housethatbuiltme · 28/05/2024 17:50

I'm glad my disabilities are invisible and untestable in utero... many would have had me killed as a 'burden'.

Its abhorrent people still think so abelist.

Many of my friends or their children have 'abort-able' medical conditions from Spina bifida to Down syndrome many others have non testable things like Autism. Its easy for healthy people to sit there and accuse those of us who are different as 'suffering' but we are not, we are just as entitled to life and health care as anyone else.

People need to remember no matter how 'healthy' they currently are now most people will end up with health issues or disabilities at some point in life. It doesn't mean their value or want to live instantly stops.

Look at people who go to literal hell and back for cancer treatment just at a chance of surviving, will/fight to live is not linked to 'health'.

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You do realise that their are babies who would make it to full term who's life would never be long, some who would die the second the cord was cut. Brain not fully developed, insides in all the wrong places. Lungs not developed.
Not even all spinabifa cases are compatible with life, the brain can be open and scull not formed. It's not always a simple fix.Some Downs children, have more cognitive function than others. Some will have some level of independence others will need 24hr care for the entire life. Many need open heart surgery, to close up holes in their hearts too which might not even have been possible 50 or 60 years ago. There are other children born into this world who will never speak, who will never be continent, able to walk or even stear their own wheelchair. Not enough muscle tone to be able to cough up mucus so end up needing it surgically removed.

You obviously have a reasonable amount of physical and cognitive function to be able to type or even use voice recognition on MN.

You cannot judge people for TFMR, you do not know the complete circumstances. I do not believe anyone makes the decision lightly. And couples and wider families will still grief for those little babies.

Topofthemountain · 28/05/2024 23:21

Thank you for sharing your story Marylou about your beautiful son. I think your way is perhaps more what I was thinking, so not the complete sweeping it under the carpet, but also not making it the identity of younger siblings. It is hard to explain and I'm very conscious that what I say may be upsetting to others (especially as the written word can be so blunt)

To all who have been touched by baby and infant loss.

Unrefridgerated · 29/05/2024 00:15

Needanewname42 · 28/05/2024 23:18

You do realise that their are babies who would make it to full term who's life would never be long, some who would die the second the cord was cut. Brain not fully developed, insides in all the wrong places. Lungs not developed.
Not even all spinabifa cases are compatible with life, the brain can be open and scull not formed. It's not always a simple fix.Some Downs children, have more cognitive function than others. Some will have some level of independence others will need 24hr care for the entire life. Many need open heart surgery, to close up holes in their hearts too which might not even have been possible 50 or 60 years ago. There are other children born into this world who will never speak, who will never be continent, able to walk or even stear their own wheelchair. Not enough muscle tone to be able to cough up mucus so end up needing it surgically removed.

You obviously have a reasonable amount of physical and cognitive function to be able to type or even use voice recognition on MN.

You cannot judge people for TFMR, you do not know the complete circumstances. I do not believe anyone makes the decision lightly. And couples and wider families will still grief for those little babies.

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My friend went through a TFMR because her baby never developed any lungs. She said she couldn’t bear the idea of watching them struggle for a few minutes in pain after being born. Because it really would only be minutes. It’s a horrible decision and I can’t imagine judging anyone for making a decision they think best in a situation no one would want to be in

WearyAuldWumman · 29/05/2024 00:30

DaffydownClock · 28/05/2024 11:06

I had a very late mc in 1980 at 20 weeks. I was put in the antenatal ward and afterwards transferred to the postnatal ward.
It was brutal.
The registrar obstetrician asked me what had I done to get rid of my baby, he was so nasty.
I wish I had made a complaint but I was too traumatised.

Good grief. I'm so sorry. That happened to my mum in the 1960s: "What did you DO?"

I didn't think that it still happened in the '80s.

Needanewname42 · 29/05/2024 00:36

Whereamigoingwiththis · 28/05/2024 13:14

women who worked were often sacked from their jobs when their pregnancy became noticeable.

My nan worked in a munitions factory (1930's and 40's) and was sacked when she was pregnant with my mum, my great grandmother lived with her at the time and looked after my mum from 6 weeks old so that my nan could be re-employed in the factory, she was again sacked before my uncle was born and didn't go back to work afterwards. This was still happening in the 60's (mum was sacked by woolworths for being pregnant) and early 70's.

Women were just less valued because of the fact that only women could get pregnant and would need time off. There were no maternity rights.

It was how the world worked then, thankfully we've moved since then.

Same with stillbirths, neonatal death, disabilities etc.

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It's been illegal to employ a woman in a factory in the 4 weeks post birth since the Factories Act 1891.

I guess maternity leave would have been much later, 1975 maybe?

However you can return to an office job after 2 weeks. I don't know the first legislation for it.

Needanewname42 · 29/05/2024 00:46

Unrefridgerated · 29/05/2024 00:15

My friend went through a TFMR because her baby never developed any lungs. She said she couldn’t bear the idea of watching them struggle for a few minutes in pain after being born. Because it really would only be minutes. It’s a horrible decision and I can’t imagine judging anyone for making a decision they think best in a situation no one would want to be in

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Exactly I can't imagine anyone makes the decision lightly.

Thinking about it, it must have been awful for MWs dealing with babies born like that back in the day.
And trying to do the right thing for the mother or what they believed was "for the best".