Sisters appointed POA for mum's estate

[foreverhopeful2000]

Hi all,
I spoke with my mum this weekend and she told me that she has appointed my two older sisters as POA in regards to her will and estate. One is the main POA and the other will act up in case the first one is unable to undertake the role. I am the third sibling/daughter. The initial discussion led by mum was that the main POA (sister no.2) would do this role as my older sister and I have a volatile relationship. I don't particularly have a brilliant relationship with either sister, and my concern is that they will outnumber me in anything relating to mum and her estate (mum has verbally mentioned that a third of the estate will be going equally to the three of us). I also wouldn't know what they are doing with her account or what transactions would be occurring. Mum's reasoning that I wasn't included as a third name was that I had to much on my plate. I do think that odd though as everyone has a lot on their plate. I am actually hurt by what this represents in the family dynamics as I would like to actually have a say in my mother's welfare. My husband has been supportive but I feel very hurt by the decision. I should add that my relationship with my mum is neither bad or worse than the ones my sisters have with her. Any advice?

Be thankful this is not your responsibility? And you would have just as much say as a non POA than you would as a third POA. Just tell your sisters what you want to happen when it comes to making decisions about your Mum. The set up sounds sensible. If all 3 of you had POA it sounds like you could be crippled by indecision and conflict, rather than having a clear leader who has the final say. ( even though that is not a role that I would want)

Power of Attorney ends up on death so someone's got the wrong end of the stick/language all wrong.

Do you mean executor? If so you can be assured that everything needs to be done by the book - if you are a beneficiary to your mum's estate and if you have any concerns can engage your own solicitor to make sure.

Either role is tricky to navigate and both have legal implications. It's tough being excluded but executor duties can be an absolute ball-ache.

You can't be POA for someone who has died. POA ceases when the person dies, it's nothing to do with a will, that would be an executor.

A POA can manage the affairs and make decisions on behalf of a person when they're alive, is that what your mum means?

both these very different roles are best fulfilled with fewer rather than more people.

She had to pick someone so makes sense to go to oldest first as that's not playing favourites. My dm discussed this with me and l said: l will make it easier for you ..don't pick me !!
It's not an enviable job, should make no difference to the will, saves you any bother so just accept it. You will see, if you have children, that it's not easy to keep the peace in these situations so support your dm in ways that suit you and leave your sisters to it.

Either you or your mum is confused here.

Power of attorney gives the holder the right to make decisions on behalf of and in the best interest of the person who has given it. This can relate to financial & legal decisions and / or to health and welfare of that person. Examples include setting up a direct debit to pay bills directly or making the decision to move into a care home. POA can only be activated either with the consent of the person or with they lose capacity and are no longer to understand the decisions they are making (clearly capacity is a pretty grey area). POA ceases on the death of the person granting it.

When the person has died, those named as executors in their will have responsibility for making sure that the estate is dealt with correctly and as it has been stated in the will.

what is it that you are concerned about?

Executor or PoA? As PPs have said two entirely different scenarios. Both however are strictly governed by law. Both are extremely onerous, time-consuming and have no remuneration, despite the fact they are a drain on your own resources. Be thankful you are not named as either.

She can choose more than one person to have financial and medical POA so you could ask her to have all 3 of you - but would that actually be productive if needed as the three of you have a somewhat discordant relationship? It's not an easy thing to have to do. If I were your mum I'd appoint sister two as she seems to relate best to you and other sister which may be vital going forward. You can appoint a solicitor; perhaps this would be the least contentious option?

If you're worried about her will and your sister(s) riding roughshod over you, then yes, whoever has POA would be of concern before this. If you're also worried about the division of remaining assets after death then I would suggest asking your mother to nominate a solicitor as her executor. It's probably better to have a solicitor as an executor anyway tbh.

It makes sense to just appoint one person as POA with a second as back up. When the time comes smile nicely and ask your sister what you can do to help. Looking after an elderly person is hard work, and you don’t need to be a POA to pull your weight.

Got confused. Is one of the sisters Executor or both? It should not matter. A Will can’t be changed when someone does not have capacity, and a POA only comes into effect when someone doesn’t have capacity. Ie a POA cannot change a Will. If you are really that suspicious of your sisters, ask your mum for a copy of the Will or ask that a Solicitor is made co-executor.

Perhaps this is the chance to try and rebuild the relationship with your sisters. Your mother has clearly given some thought about what might happen should she be incapacitated. She is trying to avoid strife.

Be thankful.its not you. It's a lot of work. Leave them to it. She needed 2, so.one is back up. It doesn't make sense to ask you, because you have a fractus relationship with both sisters. She needs 2 siblings who get along, to deal with it.

Agree with previous posters, you have muddled up having POA and being an executor. Not having POA doesn’t mean you can’t be involved in your mum’s care. POA ceases on death. If you are a beneficiary of the estate you are entitled to ask for ‘accounts’ showing assets and expenses eg funeral costs, money in bank accounts. I am the sole executor for my DM’s estate (I have a brother) and frankly sorting it out probate etc can be an expensive process eg I have to pay the house insurance, utilities etc on my DM’s house and still waiting for the grant of probate to release funds.

Thanks you all for your invaluable advice. I want to keep things amicable. But I have some serious reservations about things. My older sister has committed fraud before (which my mum knows about!). I only have verbal details from my mother about my inheritance and no copy of her will. However when my dad died some time ago (when I was single), I got a letter from their solicitors naming me as the co-executor. I will need to get some legal advice about what rights I have as a non POA to ask for proof of accounts. At the best of times, my sisters do not see me, call me and seldom email me so details to outgoings may prove elusive. I feel like emailing them, but feel that the 'written word' may backfire on me.

You need to get your facts sorted.
Are you concerned about a Power of Attorney - which can be used during a person’s lifetime? A finance LPAs can come into play if a person has capacity but temporarily unable to manage their own affairs, or when they lose capacity and need someone to take over the management of their affairs.
Your mum has every right to choose whoever she wants to act as her attorney. However, her attorneys are obliged to act in her best interests when they manage your mum’s affairs. If they are proven to have committed financial abuse, the LPA may be revoked.
Your mum should make clear written statements about how she wishes her affairs to be managed, as this will make it easier for all involved.
If you are not named as an attorney, you will have no right to ask for bank statements or other financial evidence.
The LPA has absolutely no meaning after your mum dies. Although obviously, her estate may be affected by how her finances have been managed prior to her death.

You have no rights to details of her accounts but you don't need to have this.

Be grateful. My mum appointed my sis as POA, and my other sis and brother as joi t executors of her will.
It can be an absolute ton of work and a lot of responsibity. I'm very glad now that I wasnt chosen to do it.

You don’t have any rights….not sure why you would waste your money on legal advice

You can ask to be on the poa forms as a person to be kept informed, your mum can tell your sisters and put in Her poa that they must prepare annual accounts and send her and you a copy. I'm surprised your sister who committed fraud can have financial p.o.a. was she charged. When does mum want her financial p.o.a. to start, why can't she keep you informed of her finances if she has capacity. Does mum know where her will is and who is the executors, did you get involved as a Co executor when dad died.

Why does OP need to be informed about the finances?

You can ask to be on the poa forms as a person to be kept informed That's merely a provision that someone has to be informed when the PoA is registered with the Office of Public Guardian. I imagine it's a throwback to the old EPA, which couldn't be registered until the donor had lost capacity, and was a safeguard that Evil Sister wasn't pretending donor had lost capacity in order to get hold of her money. Less relevant now LPA is almost always registered immediately it is drawn up.

your mum can tell your sisters and put in Her poa that they must prepare annual accounts and send her and you a copy bit late if the LPA has already been sent to be registered.

Maybe because her sister committed fraud before and she's worried mum might get fleeced

@TraitorsGate

Maybe because her sister committed fraud before and she's worried mum might get fleeced

It doesn't matter, if the mum has capacity and has chosen her other 2 DDs that has to be respected. OP can't just decide to barge in and overrule and demand to see what's going on.

Tell the OPG about thd fraud

Could you ask your Mum now if you can see a copy of her will? Just so you know the date on it and if there are any dodgy amendments made after that date then you will be in a stronger position.

I don't blame you for feeling uneasy about your elder sisters having POA especially as you don't trust them and have poor relationships with them. When they have POA they can make financial decisions on your mother's behalf and should she succumb to something like dementia (hopefully not, but so many do) then she will have no idea what they are doing.

I would feel the same as you OP.

Ideally mum would tell all 3 sisters her wishes, ask for herself to be kept informed of her money, health, welfare and ask them to work together in her best interests regardless of who has p.o.a. one of my siblings didn't have p.o.a. but was still involved in important health decisions and had her opinions respected, the one financial p.o.a. didn't share any financial info even with our parent which caused endless grief, it was a control power trip and thank goodness they weren't executors, that was the solicitor.

@TraitorsGate

Ideally mum would tell all 3 sisters her wishes,

Right, but she hasn't.