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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in risking a fall out with my brother over money?

43 replies

FiteFuaite · 05/04/2008 01:09

Story is,I have a small piece of land that I need to sell in order to fund the purchase of a house.This is going to upset my brother as he doesn't like to see things changed and would rather I didn't sell it.

We are renting at the moment and I am tired at being at the mercy of our landlord,I want to settle down in our own house,I want to get my pension sorted out,I just want to sell this land as I am never going to do anything with it myself.

This brother suffers from depression and takes medication for it and really,he dictates what goes in our family as my mother hates to upset him. His wife has gotten away with outrageous behaviour because people are also afraid to say anything to her in case it affects my brother. My mother thinks 'I should just wait and see what tomorrow may bring' 'I should count our blessings' 'I am lucky compared to most' 'Why can't I wait a bit longer' which doesn't help things at all,she just wants me to drift along and not rock the boat but I am not getting any younger (I'm 41,my brother is in his late 50s)and tbh,we are struggling paying rent in a not very nice place at all.

I know I am lucky to have this piece of land,but I need a house and stability now for my young family and selling it is the only way I can achieve this.

I wish I didn't have to sell this land,I wish there was some other way to sort things out,but I can't see any other way. My other siblings think I should just tell him it's being sold and leave it at that,but I can't.I need to know how to approach the issue with him so that everyone is happy with the outcome.

Is there any way to do this and keep everyone sweet?

Or AI totally BU by wanting to stop renting and just grin and bear it for another year or two?

OP posts:
LadyOfWaffle · 05/04/2008 01:12

Is the land of some sentimental value that your brother doesn't want you to sell? Could he buy it? At the end of the day you need a roof over your head and if it means selling land to buy a house... it's something that if you are ok with, you should do. You can't get a mortgage against the land, or the income from rent? Not sure how it all works with land...

LaDiDaDi · 05/04/2008 01:17

Didn't want to leave this unanswered.
YANBU. Your brother's mental health isues should not take priority over the welfare of your family.
I'm inclined to take the view of your siblings ire get on and sell it and then tell him once you are in the process of doing it.
BUT, I'm not sure that I would enter the property market at the moment tbh so that may mean you could sell the land and hold off buying until prices hopefully fall.

MrsTittleMouse · 05/04/2008 05:53

I'm desperately trying to think of a valid reason why your brother would rather that you were struggling in a place that isn't nice, rather than selling the land. Lady of Waffle is right, if it's that important to him, then he can buy it.
When I read the title I thought that you were probably BU, family is more important than money etc etc, but YANBU at all. You are trying to do the best for your family, and your brother and mother are holding you back. The fact that your other siblings are completely in agreement with you says a lot I think.
By the way, just as an aside, we're also looking for a place to buy, but we're very nervous about getting into the housing market at the moment. There are a lot of indicators that prices will fall (in fact we've seen places drop in our area by more than 10% before the Sold sign has gone up).

kitbit · 05/04/2008 08:07

Your consideration for your brother aside, it's your land, you and your family want to buy a house and improve your standard of living, it's your decision, noone else's. Your brother may not like change but really, how is this actually going to affect him? Unless he is actively involved in something to do with the land why should it matter to him? Would he be equally upset if you wanted to change your car?

Maybe I'm being unreasonable because I know he has depression issues and I freely admit I understand very little of how things like that can change you and your approach to life, but that aside he's acting like a spoilt child and everyone's letting him get away with it, to the detriment of you and your young family.

Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn, but I think he's being incredibly selfish and your Mum is just helping to keep him that way (quite similar situation in my family, one spoilt sibling effectively controlling the rest, still throwing tantrums aged about 65).

imvho you should go ahead and do what is best for your partner and children, they are what matters the most in this situation. Good luck, hope it works out!

hecate · 05/04/2008 08:10

Is there any reason why you are obliged to tell him at all? Does he have to give permission? Sign anything? If not, just sell it! It's your business. He has only got the power you give him. Live YOUR life, give no explainations to those who don't deserve them and don't apologise!

hecate · 05/04/2008 08:13

Oh, and sometimes you can't keep everyone sweet...you just can't, and you have to accept that's just life. Why SHOULD you be in a worse position than you need to be? His tantrums are HIS OWN PROBLEM, not yours. And nobody makes him go off on one, it's all down to him. He knows how to manipulate you all, doesn't he?

harpsichordcarrier · 05/04/2008 08:15

don't tell him , don't ask permission (you don't need it!) and just get on with doing what is best for you and your family.
he willl never be happy about it, and you perpetuate bad habits if you carry on asking him!
it won't be different in a "year or two" - these people are controlling you for entirely selfish reasons. they do not have your best interests at heart.

Original poster
FiteFuaite · 05/04/2008 11:18

Thankyou all for the replies,this has been going round my head for so long that I was starting to feel I was being very selfish in wanting to sell this.

The two of them (brother and sil) are kinda strange people,it is very important for them to be 'different' to others,so if we (all siblings)all go out,they don't sit with us,they sit apart and strike up conversations with random strangers or they do sit with us but complain about the cold/heat/food/location etc etc but I always feel it's my job to include them and make them happy,so I end up (with dh) stuck away from the rest of the party listening to them moan and trying to cheer them up.

I know that's stupid of me,but that's how it works. My mother will ring me at intervals to check they are ok and I am looking after them and if I'm not,then she gets into a mood and I honestly can't deal with that.

My main aim in my life so far has been to keep her happy because when she blanks me or stops talking to me,I feel like sh*t. She is very emotionally abusive,always has been,and maybe 'blames' herself for bro's depression and is now passing on the task to me to keep him happy as she is getting older.

Bro and sil have managed to extend their own plot of land to include some of my land,enough for a house site,I would say for one of their children,but nothing has ever been said to me about that. It just happened over night,it seems. When I mentioned that to my mother,out of interest,not out of anything else at all,she told me to forget about it,it isn't important, haven't I got enough?!

So you see how it is,I am a nervous wreck thinking of how I will approach this with him. We aren't a very direct family,there are ways to work up to saying something and nothing ever gets decided quickly,it's always,let's wait and see! I like to know what I am doing and when,and I hate this procrastination.

Thankyou all for listening,anyway,I know what has to be done,I just have to grow some balls and do it.

OP posts:
Dropdeadfred · 05/04/2008 11:22

sell sell sell..before they build on your land!!! And get your original boundaries drawn up!!

TheArmadillo · 05/04/2008 11:26

Tell them that you have to sell the land (you don't have to be specific as to why - mumble 'money troubles' or similar).

Say as you know they would like to use/include the land as a plot for a house you will give them first refusal once you have had it valued.

Their happiness is not more important than yours nad your family.

WorzselMummage · 05/04/2008 11:26

I agree with dropdeadfred.. sell it and buy yourself the house the your dreams with the profits. Its YOUR life your living, no-one elses !

TheArmadillo · 05/04/2008 11:26

And stop asking your mum what to do, or telling her. She's just going ot upset you over it and it's yours. You don't need her permission to do it.

kitbit · 05/04/2008 11:29

Do it legally. Then you can quote facts, figures and law, and have more chance of staying impartial.
Sound to me as though getting a bit of distance between your young family and your brother/sil/mother is a Very Good Idea. With luck it will signal to your mother that you are NOT willing to take up the baton of spoiling your brother.

balls of steel
balls of steel
balls of steeeeeeel

harpsichordcarrier · 05/04/2008 11:32

they did what !
yes, well the land.
go and see a solicitor.
draw up the boundaries
do it now, really.
this is eating up at you, and making you miserable.
don't let it take over your life.
what does dh say?

Freckle · 05/04/2008 11:38

I agree. It sounds as though your brother is never going to be happy with anything so it's stupid to put your life on hold for fear of upsetting him.

See a solicitor, get the deeds to the land and make sure your bit is fenced off - otherwise you may be accused of misrepresentation if it is not clear exactly what you are selling. If your brother gets upset, you just have to say that you have no choice but to sell the land and offer him first refusal. If he doesn't want the land, he cannot object to you selling it to someone else.

nkf · 05/04/2008 11:43

Sell it before prices drop.

chamaeleon · 05/04/2008 11:46

you are not risking falling out with your brother over money. if you fall out it will be because he is being completely ridiculous and unreasonable. give him first chance to buy the land (at market value) and you have done your bit to keep the peace

clam · 05/04/2008 12:01

And if you foresee all the c* they're going to throw your way over it, then draw up a defence mantra and stick to it. They're clearly not going to be happy unless you do what they want, which doesn't suit your own family circmunstances, so cut loose and do what you want anyway. Chamaeleon is dead right; it's not over money, its over their lack of reason.

kitbit · 05/04/2008 12:03

good point made by several people - your brother is never going to be happy with anything you do, so you may as well do as you please.

WallOfSilence · 05/04/2008 12:07

Where abouts are you?

Surely there are laws, no matter where you are, saying that there are boundaries?

I know when we built our house, we have a neighbouring house that has boundaries & we couldn't so within so many feet of it.

Just put the land up for sale.

Is it in your own name?
Would you need your brother to sign anything?

If you don't need him to sign anything then why are you worried about his reaction. It's your land, to do with what you please.......

kitbit · 05/04/2008 12:09

(adding ANOTHER 2 pence worth)
Anyway, who do they think they are taking your land?? They only did it because they thought they could get away with it. How dare they. Are you going to let them push you around over this? You need to get angry!!!!

(I certainly am on your behlaf and actually it really is none of my business! )

Original poster
FiteFuaite · 05/04/2008 12:30

Lol,thankyou all!

To answer some questions...

Bro has no sentimental attachment to the land,he just doesn't like change and has complained about other people changing/selling up so I know this bugs him.He could,of course,drum up some sort of sentiment if he needed to.

I have deeds/papers to say the land is mine.The bit he encroached on is actually a separate bit that is next to his house,still on my deeds though. His own house plot isn't,of course,that's in his name. I was hoping to have that extra bit as a sort of payoff (if that's the right word??) y'know,you play nice with me and I'll sign that over to you. (My mother has brought this up a few times 'I'll get you to sign that over to your bro next time you are in the solicitors The 'I'll get you' bit has made me drag my heels. I can be just as PA as the rest of them)

When/if I sell,that piece of land will have to be sorted out legally as the new owner will probably not be as shy as I am in saying 'get orf my lahnd!' to my bro.

Bro doesn't need to sign anything,it's the longterm fallout I don't want to deal with

What would happen if,heaven forfend,he has a little relapse and needs the doctor,even if it happens a couple of years down the track,I would be blamed forever. And I mean,forever. I still hear stories about how much work I was as a baby

I'm a wimp,pure and simple,I will always take the path of least resistance,that is why we have been renting for nearly 5 years and have had to pack up and move so often. Now,the problem is that I am including my children in this farce. If it was just me,I could go on with it. But I can't do this to them. Or dh,he works very hard and is openmouthed at my family's hillbilly ways (no offence to any hillbillys out there )He would never tell me what to do,because he knows that I know what to do,I am just dragging my heels in the hopes that I win the lottery and then don't need to sell it.

Now everyone knows what a fool I am. I have never admitted the lottery thing to anyone before,what a bl**dy stupid plan that is.

Tries to chant balls of steel to self

OP posts:
hecate · 05/04/2008 12:35

Are you saying that you choose to be unhappy and to give your children less than you could so that you don't upset other people?

If it helps you, think of it like that. You could improve your children's lives. You could make your husband happier. You could put your family first. What do you want to do?

The best for your children or the best for your brother?

--- I'm not saying that to be horrible you understand, it's just that sometimes it can really help to think in such bold terms!

cocolepew · 05/04/2008 12:38

Your brother is using emotional blackmail, as well as your Mum. Saying 'I don't like change' is a flimsy excuse. Do what is best for your children and your own mental health.

Hoist up them balls of steel and let them have it! Good luck

clam · 05/04/2008 12:39

Oh dear, Fitefuaite. Yes, it's all very well for us to say "do this, do that, he's out-of-order etc.." but you are the one who has to live with the fall-out. BUT, equally, your view is subject to years of emotional blackmail. We're seeing it in black and white and, on paper, you're NOT being unreasonable. You OUGHT to be able to sell it. It just depends whether the (family)price is too high for you. Good luck.