To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

Why is you changing your mind a barometer of much?

You might read all the posts and just be stuck with what you think. It happens all the time

It doesn’t mean the reasons against aren’t valid.

There are numerous reasons to me - as a policy not personally even

If you drill down a little more into the detail you see that even at the top figure given of £400 million that would be an extra 0.67% of the current education spend.

So you could also re-phrase the question to be "do you agree with VAT on independent schools if it will result in an extra 0.67% on the education budget" and you may get different answers.

(source for £59.5 billion: explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-funding-statistics)

OP can you tell us how old your children are and at what stage of their education?

None of these threads show labour voters in a very good light, or as people most would want to be associated with.

They just come across as bitter, spiteful, sniping and lacking in imagination because anyone who disagrees with anything they say is accused of being a Tory. It’s tedious.

Has KS actually stated how much the VAT on school fees is going to generate? Or will he wait to put it on the side of a bus.

This is no better than the Brexit campaign’s £250m for the NHS that anyone with half a brain cell knew was never going to happen.

So where is that extra money coming from?
Not from VAT because that has been pledged elsewhere and so far Labour have said they are sticking to Tory spending plans which means no additional funding.

Crap policy is crap policy. Your assumption seems to be because this policy targets wealthier people that it doesn't matter. I beg to differ!

It's dog whistle politics at its best. If we are serious about growing our economy and improving our country's future prospects then we can't turn a blind eye to policies that are designed to trick the poor into thinking politicians are on their side at the expense of the nation's education system.

Hear hear

The notion of the individual is very flexible on here.

If you have somebody clearly fiddling the benefit system, it’s ’don’t blame them; blame the government who have made it so they feel they have to’

If somebody pays their own money towards their kid’s education, it’s ’so selfish, you should change the system not abuse it’

Exactly!

I have 4 DC that have been “educated” (for want of a better word) during Covid. The impact of the pandemic is huge and as yet not understood. The last thing we all need is more messing with the Education sector, especially in a negative way. And yes I care if my youngest does not get into her preferred secondary and another one does not make Sixth Form because the grade boundaries will be inflated.
I also care very much about what Labour’s plans will be with uni tuition costs.

Please do not be so naive as to think only private school parents care. All of us who are educationally motivated want to understand the impact on our own children who are already at a massive disadvantage because of the pandemic!!!!

Unlikely to double. Are there really 3000 year 7s starting in private school each year in your area? And that's assuming that none would continue at private school.

In our grammar school area there are 4 grammar schools and 2 private senior schools. There are about 120 kids starting year 7 in each school, on average. So if say 10% of the private school pupils apply to grammar school instead that mean an extra 24 applying to grammar school, for 480 places. It really won't make much difference. There are at least 7 comprehensive schools covering the same area too.

Plus it seems unlikely that private schools will pass on the whole 20% increase - more likely they will make some cost savings and pass on a proportion.

10% of private kids = over 50 000 and only 232 grammar schools in England.

There can indeed be 45 children in a primary class. There is no legal maximum for class size in KS2. If the classrooms are too small to fit a higher number, there are things schools can do e.g. split the group into two and one group has the teacher for the morning, and one for the afternoon. Children are looked after by a TA for the remaining time. Also, schools can use areas like halls rather than classrooms. This stuff has been going on for years already, you're lucky if you haven't encountered it.

It's not that it doesn't matter. It's a good policy that I support. A small step towards reducing educational inequality and a sign that labour are willing to stick their necks out. This policy alone won't make a huge difference perhaps but more people state educating their kids can only be a good thing however you look at it.

You cannot sacrifice a bit more if you are already scrimping. We are not talking small amounts. Easily £6000 more a year for lots of families. Absolutely enough to tip the balance. Obviously private school parents who are not fabulously wealthy are concerned.

It is not necessarily about expecting people not to vote for Labour, rather than hoping people will indicate to the Labour Party that the policy is stupid, and will actually lead to a wider disparity in the long term.

And whether you have a half decent State School that you can access?

3000/120 is 25 schools. In South London (and I assume, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh etc) there are way more than 25 independent secondaries. There are about that in the single London Borough of Croydon alone.

Please, do try and bear in mind that some of us have kids with SN which the state refused to support. We’re doing our best. The current situation is tough enough with ignorant abuse like this.

Except where will the state get the money to educate more kids? Labour have promised to stick to Tory spending plans but every child that leaves private school needs educating by the state and therefore paying for by the tax payer.

Most won't live in a grammar school catchment though will they. Grammar schools are only in certain areas. In areas with grammar schools there are already probably fewer people using private schools

Plus 50,000 is spread across 14 years of school so only a small proportion are going to be doing the 11 plus each year.

I can see why a change might be disruptive and annoying to them, but us plebs who are the rest of the population have had all manner of shit to deal with. I've had to battle for a year just to get my son (who has very severe autism and is non-verbal) from a mainstream to a special school. Some kids are out of education completely due to this. I genuinely think some of these posters don't think people like my son deserves a school place, as he will never be a lawyer or a doctor. It has always been difficult with getting SEN provision, but it has deteriorated significantly under the Conservatives.

I think it says a lot that it is all they seem to care about. Ditto for the 'Labour doesn't know what a women is' brigade (who are probably the same people). Nobody cares, bigger shit to deal with.

Multiple threads trying to convince people to vote Tory so their kids can be privately educated is coming across as desperate and ranty, but I can understand some of the anger if your child is happy where they are and that could change.

A lot of comprehensives have grammar streams now too, as well as grammar schools, so I don't think there will be loads of places taken up by ex-privately educated kids. Scare tactics (a favourite of Sunak) don't work, when the biggest thing most people fear is the status quo and nothing changing.

It is not just the VAT though, I understand that Private schools will also be required to start paying business rates which are not cheap. Schools will be subject to general cost pressures as a result of the knock-on effect of minimum wage for example. Plus if numbers fall, fixed costs must still be covered, and that will push up costs per place.

Nobody is saying don't vote Labour.
All we are trying to do is cut through the strapline and identify the many flaws in the policy.

But again the numbers are tiny. Hardly any kids are in private school. Most will stay in it despite price rises. The extra kids are going to be spread quite thinly. Add that to falling birth rates. Schools are paid per pupil so more kids means more money for schools - most state schools are desperate to fill their classes.

There may be particular areas where it has a bigger impact, but across the board it will make little difference to the state sector.

@MinervaMcGonagallsCat , aren’t independent schools given a VAT exemption because of their charitable status? If the VAT exemption is removed their impetus to be charitable will be removed surely?