To think most people would want their therapist to be kind and empathetic?

[AnyNameWillDo89]

Or do some people actually want someone who is really hardcore and brutal and will give them a good kick up the backside?

Mine is like this. She jokes, ‘Oh I know, I’m such a mean therapist, aren’t I?’ But actually I think she gets carried away and goes a bit far with this approach sometimes.

If I complain she’ll just tell me to stop coming as she has a long waiting list of others who’d like to see her. But really, aren’t most people looking for emotional support and compassion?

I hear you. I am literally coming away from sessions though self-harming and/or calling helplines because she’s sent my negative self-talk into overdrive. This surely isn’t right.

Just leave! Its no judgement on either of you.

I really work well with some clients and badly with others—and I think I work well with a pretty wide variety and try to give people both what they want and what they need.

But sometimes people can’t take what they need, if you see what I mean. Or they want the outcome but they are not yet ready to endure the grief and pain of the work.

If you like her I would be direct and let her know how you feel when she categorizes the therapy and leaps out with self referential quips. Nothing wrong with joking or meta commentary (in some therapies) but maybe it makes you feel unsafe or unseen or makes the therapy too much about her?

At any rate its horses for courses. I learned a while ago to only work with people who really like my style. If people don’t like being in the therapy they can’t benefit.

Well, no, but have you told her this? How long has this been going on? Why are you keeping on showing up to sessions, not addressing this, in the knowledge that you're going to be self-harming afterwards? Take some responsibility here!

No that should not happen. You need to end that relationship she is not suitable for you in any way. Just email or text and end the therapy. You don’t have to engage further even if she asks for feedback if you choose not to.

All good questions. We started out very well. We are from similar minority backgrounds and there are various aspects of my life which I felt she had a really good understanding of. There are other things she’s not getting though. I keep hoping maybe I can explain them better and she’ll start to understand. But it really is starting to seem now like I’m flogging a dead horse, isn’t it?

I’ve asked her to take a gentler approach and try to adapt to my current needs but she’s effectively saying, ‘No, I only do hardcore. Take it or leave it.’

That is actually very telling. She sounds truly awful.

No, that really isn't good and you should stop seeing her. You say: "If I complain she’ll just tell me to stop coming as she has a long waiting list of others who’d like to see her." That is a really bad response from her. It's a real "If you don't like it, fuck off because I don't need you".

There are ways of being tough and making you accountable while also being kind. You should sense her kindness and care despite the uncomfortable things you might have to talk about.

I don't think it's that you're not a good fit - I don't think she's doing a good job. She's not looking at what you need. You are self harming after a session with her - that should be the last thing you'd do.

I actually haven’t seen her for a while now. But yes, I have told her this. She has just told me to stop coming when what I’d like her to do is try to adapt her approach to better meet my needs.

You don’t want hardcore, so leave it. What feels difficult for you about leaving it, when it is not what you want? On some level you are not hearing what she is saying, or believing it. She is being very clear.

You don’t hang around the butchers and hope they will sell you a loaf of bread if you ask nicely enough. They don’t sell bread.

On some level it can be that simple. She doesn’t offer what you feel you need. It’s no reflection on either of you.

But she's made it very clear that's not something she's going to do. Find a new therapist.

Then I think you should write to her and tell her this. "I had hoped that after being told how harmful your approach was to me, leading me to self-harm immediately after our sessions, that you would change your approach. Instead you have told me to look elsewhere for support and counselling, so I am writing now to inform you that I shall do just that and will end our sessions as from today."

No, she doesn’t. There is a vast gulf between telling someone truths they don’t want to hear and abusive. You sound like the peeeon I know who just fires her psychologist when they tell her something true. Spoiler alert- she’s not getting any better.

In fairness, my question was whether some people genuinely like this approach. Not whether I should keep seeing someone like this. I’d already pretty much come to the conclusion that, although it’s disappointing, I need to get back to the drawing-board.

@Codlingmoths
'If I complain she tells me to stop coming she has a long waiting list'

Fine (maybe?!) for a hairdresser to talk to someone like this but a therapist is in a position of power and should take on board feedback and find a style that feels safe and comfortable for their client, working at their pace.

All therapists should be adaptable and person centred

A therapist should explore the discomfort and where it's coming from with the client.

A therapist should explore what about the therapy is uncomfortable- language used or the direction where it's going.

Not just 'do things my way or fuck off.' This therapist is creating dependency and knocking the conficence of her clients.

Op what kind of Therapist is she?

A surprising number of people respond very well to an arse-kicker who doesn't put up with their shit and get a lot more out of it than they would from fluffy hand-patting. Me, all I ever really need is someone to shut up and listen whole I talk to myself and work out for myself what I need to do, but one of the reasons I have such a good relationship with my big sister is that she is one of the few people who will, empathetically, kick me into touch.

She also has a point about why you're still seeing her if you don't like her style. Her style is her style; she won't be offended if you stop seeing her, but she's also not going to change.

My concern with what you're saying is that she doesn't sound respectful or allow you to voice a problem without shutting you down. In the long run that is more likely to erode your self confidence and autonomy. I think she's being lazy in taking this approach because she wants to see tangible action/signs of progress quickly. It's unprofessional to suggest you leave if you try to raise something that is causing you distress. Neither of you should throw in the towel at the first sign of a problem. No idea why she's modeling that other than impatience. There's being tough and there's being arrogant. I would be interested to know if her supervisor is aware of this aspect of her approach.

I don’t like the sound of her. The best therapist I had did challenge. She would say, ‘ I am saying this to challenge you’. And that is what I wanted. But it was also clear she was on my side and in no way was she mean.

Given your therapist says ‘ ooh I am such a mean therapist’ I think she has crafted a strong self image of herself which she is acting out. In all walks of life, I find people like this tedious. If she wasn’t a therapist she’d probably be the type of person who says, ‘I’m just being honest!’

If you want a kick up the arse and to be told what you're doing wrong then you may as well post on Mumsnet for free! If that approach doesn't suit then change your therapist.

Kind of joking 😁 But she doesn't seem to be helping you and making you feel worse with your history of self-harm does sound a bit worrying/inappropriate.

Why are you paying someone who makes you feel worse? How are you 'clicking' with someone whose methods don't work for you?

She has just told me to stop coming when what I’d like her to do is try to adapt her approach to better meet my needs.

She has literally given you the solution to the problem of your incompatibility. Why are you persevering with her?

If I complain she’ll just tell me to stop coming as she has a long waiting list of others who’d like to see her.

I’m sure there are others that can word this better than me, but she’s doing a bit of a head fuckery here. Fine if she’s telling you she takes a direct approach that may not be suitable, but why position it next to I’ve a long waiting list, or ‘ but everyone else likes it, what’s wrong with you’ . It’s a sales tactic. I’d be wondering how in demand she actually is, if it’s that keeping you there.

Very true!

I would want the therapist who helps me progress with the issue I am trying to work on. For me I prefer honesty to softness but then I would also need to trust the intelligence and skill of the therapist, and the "Oh, I'm such a mean therapist" would make me go .

Either way if it isn't working for you, change - the interpersonal relationship is so important.

I’m wondering too about this so-called waiting list. It didn’t take long for me to get to see her at all. Her secretary initially said it would do but then - hey presto - a spot suddenly happened to become available the following week at just the time I’d said suited.

I’m wondering too about this so-called waiting list. It didn’t take long for me to get to see her at all. Her secretary initially said it would do but then - hey presto - a spot suddenly happened to become available the following week at just the time I’d said suited.

Was her 'secretary' spoken to via email
I think a lot of therapists use this tactic to give the impression they are in demand, which is ok initially, they are selling a product 'themselves' and people are looking for reassurances.

Using it in the way she's done when you've expressed a concern, not only shows she's not receptive to feedback, but she's also put you in a bind, which is manipulative and exploitative.
I'd bin her off and find someone else.

Nah I think her approach here is about herself and not her clients.

@AnyNameWillDo89 did you have quite an authoritative upbringing? Were people in your past quick to gloss over your emotions? It could be that her ways are triggering some deeper stuff for you but as a therapist she should be looking at this with you.