to expect employee to be flexible and attend team event on a day they are usually off?

[traintocatch]

We have an employee who recently reduced hours and chose to have a whole day off during the week -Tuesdays (working week is Mon-Fri). Before approving this, we agreed they would work on Tuesdays as and when required for project delivery so not 100% set in stone. Since they started this pattern we happened to organise team events with external facilitators and 2 of these events were held on Tuesdays. Whilst not critical that they attend, it would be important for their development, their understanding of company culture as well as team morale and really showing that are willing to integrate. We cannot always choose days to suit them. They declined to attend on both occasions and wondered what would be reasonable to expect? I know I would attend and take the day off another time that week?

I've been promoted twice in the last 3 years and perform very well in my role during my contracted hours, thank you. I fulfil my contractual obligations, so does my employer, we're both happy with that arrangement.

I can also see where you are coming from- it's the perspective of a bad manager who takes their staff for granted and feels entitled to more than they give. Which is wonderful news for the good employers who can cherry-pick your best staff with ease.

Nice try, but you said:

"Learn skills and take on tasks outside their usual work remit, cover for the manager"

Later post you said this:
"That is why I am now the Head of Department for my sins and the buck stops with me."

So there's no way you were talking about yourself when you said cover for the manager.

If you're finished bigging yourself up could you explain what you do for your team above and beyond the minimum?

To be honest, if I were a proper manager (I clearly am not by your reckoning), I would make the entire junior team redundant because I have invested years in their training and they are not performing to the required standard. Actually their jobs are now obsolete and it is only a matter of time before I can automate their jobs and replace the team with employees with higher skills. But I cover for them for as long as possible because they have families to feed.

So your entire team is under-performing, and you still consider yourself a good manager? 😂

So nothing, apart from bigging yourself up again?

I'm calling bullshit, after a few posts they tripped themselves up.

No way anyone with that lack of attention to detail is singlehandedly keeping a team of incompetent workers afloat to keep their families from penury.

Loving the predictable responses.

I am sure there will always be a way to twist things around to make it my fault because a manager's job is in the wrong.

Keep 'em coming.

Nope, my manager is excellent. So was my previous manager, and the one before that. There are many wonderful managers out there. Just not you.

You can usually identify them by the fact they have teams that are all doing a good job, at their actual job that is, not at demonstrating an unspecified and vague "commitment" to the company outside of their job role.

I would ask them do they know they can swap their day off and you would need to know why they have that particular day off.

Actually this is serious. Their jobs are obsolete. They were fine before technology came on the scene. We no longer need people who are pure processors. Machines do this more accurately and consistently. We need people to analyse the answers that the machines produce (ie. thinking skills). I was unable to upskill them to give them a better chance at saving their jobs in the future. No doubt my incompetence as a manager. Part of the reason is they did not want to upskill, which is in keeping with this thread of people who want to work the 4 corners of their job spec and no more.

That is fine. Their jobs are ok for now. But the march of technology means I will need fewer of 'processors' in the future and eventually none. I will hire new graduates and train them up more easily to the new roles than trying to upskill people in old roles that will soon no longer exist.

This is an industry trend.

It's not a day off, it's a non-working day agreed with the employer. The employee now works 4 days a week and had a 20% pay cut to reflect that.

What they do on that day is irrelevant and the employer/manager has no right to ask. Likewise, what I do on bank holidays, annual leave and every Saturday and Sunday is none of my employer's business.

Attending a team building event that has got no bearing on project delivery is not going above and beyond. There is no guarantee that this event will actually improve anything in your team and forcing people to attend when they don't have to is just going to make them resent the team.

You should promote people based on merit and business need rather than cheap token gestures. Are they fulfilling their contractual duties? Are they going above and beyond in anything that actually improves tangible outputs?

I work for a large international company and thankfully every manager I have had has been extremely understanding about work life balance. I assume they are told to be. Managers also seem to value and have a decent work life balance. My boss who manages about 2000 people works 4 days a week. When you request something to.imrpove your life and it doesn't significantly affect project delivery they try their hardest to grant it to you. If you are asked to come in on your day off your manager will be extremely apologetic and they won't push you if you say you can’t. And they won't hold it against you either and neither will your colleagues. This is what builds team morale. This is what makes people want to give their best. People will work with honesty and integrity when they see the company values them and doesn't try to exploit them.

Besides I have never seen a correlation between how social someone is and their ability to do their job or their motivation to do a good job.

Your difficulty in answering a simple question might make your own lofty position untenable also.

If what you have stated "we agreed they would work on Tuesdays as and when required for project delivery so not 100% set in stone" is in writing etc eg contract, emails etc, then I would get to the end of 12 months and deal with it as part of an appraisal. That they have failed to keep their side of the contact if they always decline the Tuesday. Personally i would make this a 1st warning.

IF however you did this nicey nicey - conversations by the coffee machine etc then I am not sure there is much you can do. And I think you are reasonable to expect an employee to stick to what they agreed.

Eh? Taking things quite personally. I said I was wrong and incompetent as a manager. Not good enough for you?

My bad.

I'm not taking this personally at all and I've no idea where you're getting that from? Your lack of attention to detail is rather startling.

I work 4 days a week. I don't work Fridays and I often have stuff booked in several weeks in advance/in a row. A lot of my friends don't work Fridays and it is great for booking hairdressers/nails/therapist/physio etc etc too. Unless it was something I really really wanted to do or I was given a lot of notice, I'd be very reluctant to change my day off. Once you agree to it a couple of times, the assumption will be made that it can more often, for lesser things. I wouldn't want to set that precedent.

Attention to detail? Also not sure what you are on about.

YADBU

yup, as James 1 said "No bishop, no king"

You can't answer a very simple question - what you do for your team above and beyond your obligations. (You first answered with what you expect from employees. Next you've said you're keeping wasters on your team because they have families to support, but later said their roles would be automated as it’s an industry trend.)

And now you claim I'm taking this personally, I'm just calling out bs.

BUT the agreement was for project delivery, not for poncing around.

YABU

Commenting on when their kids are in school is not your business.

I don’t think that OP is being at all unreasonable. This poster with the ‘bare minimum’ reference to working above is frankly alarming. Finding the overall reaction of posters around this depressing for employers and economic recovery.

Taking advantage of what??

Their day off?