to expect employee to be flexible and attend team event on a day they are usually off?

[traintocatch]

We have an employee who recently reduced hours and chose to have a whole day off during the week -Tuesdays (working week is Mon-Fri). Before approving this, we agreed they would work on Tuesdays as and when required for project delivery so not 100% set in stone. Since they started this pattern we happened to organise team events with external facilitators and 2 of these events were held on Tuesdays. Whilst not critical that they attend, it would be important for their development, their understanding of company culture as well as team morale and really showing that are willing to integrate. We cannot always choose days to suit them. They declined to attend on both occasions and wondered what would be reasonable to expect? I know I would attend and take the day off another time that week?

You say they recently reduced their hours and also that you've asked them to attend twice. So, it seems that you are being unreasonable. If you are organising the dates, then respect their working pattern and do the team days on their working days. If it were out of your control, it would be different.....sounds like you are doing it on purpose and placing them in the situation where they need to refuse.

Whilst not critical that they attend

There's your answer.

YABU.

You call people in out of hours only when it is essential.

And you pay them an enhanced rate, and cover additional childcare and other reasonable costs.

And if you want to build a cohesive team, lesson number one for whoever is booking these desirable-but-not-essential things is that they must always be held at the times when everyone is in. Or are varied by which day and what time of day, so at least it's not always the same people missing out. Get this right, and the issue will vanish. So turn your attention to the person whose job it is to arrange this and get them to up their game.

So just to be clear - these 'team morale' events are nothing to do with project delivery, which was the criteria set for attending work on a non-working day when your employee dropped to 4 days? And yet you're complaining that they chose to stick to this when you clearly don't see a need for YOU to stick to this?

It's their non-working day. Accept that.

As it was agree beforehand that they should try to work on Tues when required I'd be reminding them of this. But if it's not in their contract I'm not sure there's much more you can do

I'm not surprised they won't attend then 😂

'childcare not an issue, kids are in secondary school'

It can still be an issue.

My ds is year 11. He is dropped off at the school bus stop 7 miles from home. I collect him from there, otherwise it would be a 7 mile walk home on country roads with no pavement, carrying a schoolbag that I can barely lift.

People's circumstances vary.

Do you work mon-fri, would you give up your Sunday? I wouldn't.

Surely you tell the external resource to adjust if they are your contractor .

we have people who are giving up week-ends for business trips and they don't moan. They just go and take time off when they need it.

They may have other caring responsibilities, medical issues where appointments are on Tuesday, or be doing a course they do not want you to know about.

I know people who care or have cared for elderly parents, other relatives or even close friends. (Close friends are the type you rely on if you have no family help.) They need days off or flexibility around their work to do this.

it would be important for their development, their understanding of company culture as well as team morale and really showing that are willing to integrate.

How will coming to a shitty team event show they are willing to integrate on their day off? You said yourself it’s not critical that they attend so why is this an issue?

Some employers need a firm boot up the arse and learn that they EMPLOY people, they don’t OWN them. People work to live. As for ‘going the extra mile’, exactly what does that mean to you?

To me, this is exactly the kind of inflexible, work-to-rule attitude that makes employers reluctant to give flexibility for fear of employees taking the piss. It's give and take. Hardly a big ask to swap a day on a couple of occasions, especially when the employee was told that on occasion it may be necessary.

I would be having a word with employee about how flexibility works both ways.

Why are you scheduling anything on someone’s day off? AND then expect them to be in?

It depends on the arrangement. If you have agreed to change their working pattern to be Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday only, then you cannot expect them to work on Tuesdays. If you explicitly agreed they may be required to work on Tuesdays on certain days, then it is not unreasonable at all to require them. If it starts happening to often and the employee is unhappy then you can negotiate how often this may happen. Obviouly they wanted the Tuesday off so that they can have different plans - so it is not fair asking them to work on Tuesdays too often - but then if they know that they can be asked to work on Tuesdays occasionally, then they need to find different arrangements for childcare etc. on those days.

yabu. Tuesday is their non working day. Attendance is non essential and weird that the most recent meetings were scheduled on that day. They are your employee, not your slave.

You said yourself that she agreed to swap for project delivery, not bloody team building lectures. Your way increases her workload, as she's then left with one less day to deal with her existing work.

2 days that matter for the team

Go and ask your team (anonymously so they can answer honestly) if it is more important to them to attend a day listening to someone blow hot air about a culture, or to see things such as respecting their work/life balance and non-working days in actual practice?

What a bullshit attitude. And we wonder why the British economy is in free fall.

It's not reasonable to expect anything. It's a non working day. Don't agree to it then moan about it. The employee doesn't have to attend so will likely be choosy about what she chooses to give up her day for. I would be, even if I did get another day off instead.

YABU.

I work Monday to Friday and very occasionally do some work at weekends to meet deadlines, but there is no way I would be going to a team event at the weekend and what you are asking this employee to do is the same.

Do these events have to be on a Tuesday, if you want this employee to attend you should organise them on one of their working days.

How long have they been working this new pattern? If it's not been very long they may be concerned that you're not taking their Tuesday off work seriously and therefore don't want to set the precedence that they will be very quick to change days to suit every whim of work.

However, I do think that if the flexible working had been agreed on the basis that business needs may require the occasional Tuesday working for which they will receive another day off in lieu, then perhaps a conversation needs to be had about what constitutes "business need" and perhaps get that clarified for both parties.

In my work environment (finance), those who work flexibly understand there are times they will need to come in on their usual non work days, they then take the time back at another point that suits them, but that's because the expectations are clearly set.

.....

That's for project delivery.

One some of the projects I've been on some random manager has tried to get people to travel across the country for team building meetings. I seem to work in very cohesive teams because someone will openly object pointing out x and y person can't come to stop the meeting happening.

@traintocatch given the option, I should think most people would have Mon/Fri off, unless this was not allowed by your company? Tuesdays must be important for her.

Unless you are very lucky to be in a job you love, going the extra mile for, as you say, "team morale and really showing that are willing to integrate" is not on anyone's list of priorities. Is the salary you are providing exceptional?

Your expectations are unreasonable.

eta; Is this a wind-up?

Amazing that you think it's reasonable to ask. I'm sure there's a reason you didn't pick a Sunday for this team day. No-one wants to work on their non-working day. It's her own time, you don't own her time just because you employ her. I would certainly say no to this as a matter of principle because I've found your boundaries are constantly pushed when you're part time. As soon as you agree to one thing on your non working day you find it's never ending.

I would do try and be flexible for this sort of thing when i can, but I am very senior and I make that decision to do it - thats my choice. I don't impose it on my team and always check their working patterns when planning things.

I do not expect them to "go the extra mile". Why should they? They are paid to do a job and they do that job, i have no right to expect them to plan their Iives around their employment.