to expect employee to be flexible and attend team event on a day they are usually off?

[traintocatch]

We have an employee who recently reduced hours and chose to have a whole day off during the week -Tuesdays (working week is Mon-Fri). Before approving this, we agreed they would work on Tuesdays as and when required for project delivery so not 100% set in stone. Since they started this pattern we happened to organise team events with external facilitators and 2 of these events were held on Tuesdays. Whilst not critical that they attend, it would be important for their development, their understanding of company culture as well as team morale and really showing that are willing to integrate. We cannot always choose days to suit them. They declined to attend on both occasions and wondered what would be reasonable to expect? I know I would attend and take the day off another time that week?

OP said in her first post the days were reduced on the expectation of employee flexibility on the non working day. How is it unreasonable to expect an employee to be flexible when that's what they signed up to?

Just an employee's perspective, but I have been asked to undertake weekend courses when I have already gone above and beyond on my working days, on evenings going out on unpaid oncall visits. My CEO saw it as a battle of wills, that I really must attend a course two hours away on lifting and handling when the same course was available locally and could have been arranged inhouse so other staff could benefit. I had childcare issues on a Saturday. I realised quickly she was the problem. She of course never attended any such extra training.

Best was a team building affair on rope equipment at height. Staff were afraid to say no and my colleague broke her leg badly resulting in considerable time off work. Some of the staff said they were terrified and felt bullied and humiliated.

While I am not suggesting you are this unreasonable op, I do pick up that you feel she owes you. You agreed to her working four days a week, she has not refused time critical project work, but a teambuilding course. FYI, most staff absolutely loathe these courses and they do not team build - under pressure - quite the opposite.

Haha good point about morale!

Come into work on your day off to help build employee morale. Nice one 😁

@Dorisbonson it's the level of flexibility that's the issue. Unavoidable project emergency or meeting that must be held on that day - absolutely fine if employee can change her NWD around.

Team training day which was known about in advance of employees changing, but manager chose not to mention as the kind of thing she expected attendance at, not so fine.

I currently work 4 days a week. I'm very circumspect about the situations I will change my NWD and a lot of it comes down to how I'm asked. In the past I've realised if you come in or change often people start taking it and you for granted and I took a 20% pay cut for that not to be the case.

Of course most people will have childcare arrangements on their NWD anyway.

Yes, when needed for a project delivery.

Not a team building day…

so why are you running these events on a Tuesday?
is this to fit around other's days off?

Which from OP's description sounds like a waste of time day!

Yup, the one who values doing a good job over attending team events! Its perfectly possible to do an excellent job and be a great member of a team without wasting time on such rubbish...

Umm only the people who have children who need childcare which is not most people.

It was agreed they would work on Tuesdays as and when required for project delivery. A team event isn’t necessary for project delivery so YABU.

They applied for reduced hours and got them. One exception was agreed, that if a project required it, they would come in.

For some reason you’re seeing the reduced hours being agreed to as a favour from you instead of an agreed work contract.

I guess I was disappointed when I knew I did everything to accommodate them...

You sound unprofessional, I’d hate to work for someone who sees things how you do.

If there is not set agreement then you absolutely cannot expect them to attend.

You created this situation by agreeing vague terms.

You don't own them, their loyalty to your company is one paycheck away.

Please don't talk about company culture or team morale, thise are just corporate bollocks and mean diddly squat in the real world.

I do think a lot of employers think they are doing you a massive favour by "letting" you work part-time or flexibly, forgetting that they don't pay you for that time or that you are working at other times.

However, I've always swapped my days if it worked for me.

I actually had a boss who didn't like me swapping for work purposes (I think because he didn't want to have to reciprocate if I asked to swap for a personal reason like an appointment).

Yes, and the loyalty is almost always one way. Demanded of employees however poorly they're treated or paid, rarely reciprocated by the company.

The solution is breathtakingly simple - don’t hold these events on Tuesdays. You should have learnt that the first time @traintocatch. It’s not rocket science.

An Employer can request an employee to attend training, meetings or events by giving reasonable notice which is normally 30 days. If an employee refuses to attend then said employee can be managed through a conduct process

Within their normal working hours, yes. If it falls outside your working hours or days, no.

What you are saying is that my employer could decide that they want me to work on a Saturday night and then discipline me for refusing to do so. Good luck with that.

Same goes for any day if it's not your working day.

If they want you to attend essential training that can't happen at any other time, there might be a grey area, because you can't do your job without it. But not some godawful team event.

IME 'teamplayer' usually means the employer expects blood sweat and tears while forgetting their side of the bargain.

Absolutely. Time off is a favour they may grudgingly graciously allow, not an employee right. Pay rises are a fantasy.

Before I was a team manager, I once had a (very nice but new) boss who was asked by another member of the team to get me to limit my work flexibility because she never knew when I would be in to see her patients...which was fair enough I guess despite the fact that I left a note on the whiteboard saying where I was and when i would be back in...... The requestor was supposed to be confidential but it was obvious who had mentioned it. Just to point out this was in the days before mobile phones, online calendars and so on. Anyway I said sure I'd be happy to limit my flexibility, no skin off my nose...... Anyway I came out of that meeting to be met by the person asking me to see one of their patients but could I move my hours to do so....I told her to go and see my manager as he had just told me that I must limit my flexible working.....I hope my smirk didn't show.

i think in this case you shouldn't have agreed the 4 day week and refused as the business wasnt able to support it. You don't know the reason nor need to know why they needed that 4 days week and why they couldn't come in on them days. Requests like that need to work for both.

If employees expect employers to be flexible it should be the same in reverse.

I work my full time hours over 9 days and when it was approved it was agreed that if there is a business need i may have to switch my day off and have done so a couple of times.

Maybe they don't want promotion. Maybe they are happy at the moment with their working hours, pay and conditions. Maybe their family life currently requires their attention on that particular day and requires them to work part time. Maybe in future if their external commitments change they will be in a position to work longer hours and be more available. But for now the working arrangement they have suits their needs.

We work to live. We shouldn't live to work.

Mmm but this manager has asked the employee to do it a couple of times already – within the last 2 months (and possibly an even smaller window).

(And for non-critical stuff – so outside of what they had agreed 🤷🏻)

They don't work on a Tuesday.
If they have agreed that they will work on a Tuesday to enable project delivery then that is different.
Team events etc on a Tuesday is completely different and no-one regardless of what hours they work have to attend events like this.