to expect employee to be flexible and attend team event on a day they are usually off?

[traintocatch]

We have an employee who recently reduced hours and chose to have a whole day off during the week -Tuesdays (working week is Mon-Fri). Before approving this, we agreed they would work on Tuesdays as and when required for project delivery so not 100% set in stone. Since they started this pattern we happened to organise team events with external facilitators and 2 of these events were held on Tuesdays. Whilst not critical that they attend, it would be important for their development, their understanding of company culture as well as team morale and really showing that are willing to integrate. We cannot always choose days to suit them. They declined to attend on both occasions and wondered what would be reasonable to expect? I know I would attend and take the day off another time that week?

I only read the title

That would be a no from me

Nope and I’m not one that says if you have kids you shouldn’t work Xmas.

i find it depressing that with foreknowledge there is no flexibility from an employee. I’m not talking the day before; that’s obviously ridiculous. But with significant time ahead then and a day in lieu during the week any not?

im going on what is given in the op which doesn’t state: childcare, coursework or any other information but just doesn’t appear to want to be involved.

Im not denying team building things are shite, but they are a good opportunity to laugh at the wankiness and engage with colleagues. Especially in such a large WFH culture.

And I do think it’s sad that culturally it’s now the norm to no longer give a fuck - if all NHS, Carers, Police and fire amongst others felt like this (who are massively under valued to boot) it would be a really sad day.

Im obviously in the minority though so shall leave you all to it and feel feee to pile in 🤣

Yep, I completely agree. If you wouldn't ask full time employees to do it on the weekend, don't ask a part time employee to do it on their non working day.

@Tickytocky
Ha ha ha.

Fuck being loyal to a company. They won't be loyal to an employee if they need to cut salary costs and make people redundant.

The employee doesn't get paid to be in on Tuesdays. What is so hard to understand?

I'd be fascinated to know what the OP's company actually does, anyway. I bet it's some dull corporate bullshit that contributes precisely nothing useful to society and is full of self-important David Brents.

Now I really, really want someone to say that third tiret out loud next time they have one of these inflicted on them.

Soooooo.... 2 out of 4 Tuesdays in a one month period, their day off, you still expected them in?

No.

Yes I agree.

And the attitude will probably ensure that other people don't get these 4 days weeks agreed as now it's Tuesday and x day that you need to avoid when arranging meetings (and B.O.S.S. knows no one is actually going to be flexible whatever they said to get the agreement signed)

If by 'helping them to 'grow' you mean organising crap team building compulsory events, I'd hazard a guess they are happy for you to focus on others.

I think it’s wrong to expect it, but I am a part-time worker and have been for years and I have often swapped my days to accommodate something at work. But that is my choice.

I recently kicked up a stink as the company I work for decided that to improve work life balance the staff on 30 hours contracts should work five days instead of four. Still can't figure that one out! I got to keep my four days. No set shift patterns, and I'm always knackered, so need those three days to rest. I got it as a 'reasonable adjustment' because I'm pregnant and autistic and I got to a point where I was barely coping with my pregnancy, or indeed the personal space invaders and people who cough all over the place. 🙄 I'm now off until my maternity leave finishes, hurray!

They also dispensed with breaks by cutting people's hours so they could sneak under the rules, but then brought them back, as I assume enough people complained about it!

@Warmwoolytights

That's a lot of what ifs...

As with most things in a life, you need a bit of give & take to be successful. In my opinion, being difficult isn't going to get you far!
If there is a genuine reason, they should be professional and communicate their concerns.

@TheSandHurtsMyFeelings

I clung on by my fingertips to a part time post when my DC were little - they are teens now and I have a v v well paid, part time and interesting role with scope to develop further. I have it because I worked hard and was flexible. I maintained my work life balance but was serious about wanting a career once my DC were older.
My employers weren’t always easy and I didn’t particularly enjoy my job at the time but I knew it’d help me get to where I wanted to be.

I get that work isn’t important to everyone and that’s fine and depends what you want but we can have different opinions and still be respectful.

I’m sure they moan about it just not to you!
I hope you are also paying them an enhanced rate if you are expecting your staff to work on what would normally be their days off.
why can’t your company get its act together and organise theses events for days that all of the staff are in if they are so important???

I hope you're not a manager because you're snide and patronizing as fuck.

OP I think given you agreed flexibility up front and gave them loads of notice they could have easily made the effort to come in and just taken a different day off. I am flexible when I can be with my employer and get the same in return.

What does your flexible working policy state around having to attended training etc?

Most corporate companies will approve a flexible working request with the caveat that any training outside of their agreed shift pattern would require their attendance.

If I gave an employee two months notice to attend a training session and they told me the day before they were unable to attend, I would have a formal conversation around required standards.

What you’re asking is not unreasonable therefore attendance should be mandatory when a reasonable amount of notice is given.

Do you need a new team member? 😂

man I want a job!

She 'can', but 'can she'?
Perhaps Tuesday is a specific day that it is not convenient for her to work. My friend for example works condensed hours as 4 days a week but does not work Wednesdays as this is the day she plays sports competition at professional level. Saying to her 'swap a Wednesday for a Friday' wouldn't work for her.

"when someone goes that extra mile, whilst you do everything to accommodate their needs, it shows that they are worth it. IF they don't meet you in the middle you know to focus on the people who do and help them grow"

So you want to penalise her for sticking to working times that the company agreed to! Be careful, or you'll end up in HR having to explain yourself.

I think the term 'cheeky fucker' was created with you in mind. She doesn't owe it to you to rearrange her life to suit your preferences. The agreement was that she would work if necessary to project delivery, not because you want to do some team building exercise and have thoughtlessly planned it twice on her day off.

Flexibility around project delivery as OP stated clearly in the OP.

Shitty team building events that do fuck all for "company culture" and "team building" is not essential and NOT what OP explained to her employee when they agreed her working hours.

Not sure why some posters are conflating this.

How is being direct 'snide'? It is the literal opposite

FYI if you're going to try and insult someone:

'Dictionary:'Snide'
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
adjectived
.1 Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way.'

I was being deadly serious. They need training ASAP if they think this is a difficult dilemma or people management 'problem'. This is nothing in terms of people management so if they are struggling with something simple, they need help.

I don't work on Mondays. Everyone knows not even to ask.

Though declining the day before was unreasonable, should have been when invited.

I think you're being unreasonable. You say you've specified "as and when required for project delivery" and this didn't meet that criteria.
I work a 4 day week and have occasionally swapped days off for meetings but other times when I've been asked for a short notice swap I've refused when I've had other things already booked, would I swap for what you describe? No. Maybe save your employees goodwill for when something important and 'required for project delivery' comes up.

Good companies judge people on the quality of their work, not on how many hoops they are willing to jump through. Managers who know what they are doing will look to retain good quality, high skilled workers without making it a popularity contest or seeing who can lick the most bum!

I don't think you were unreasonable. I am the admin for a large team of over 150. We have a few people who don't work Fridays, or have to leave earlyish for childcare. Now, if one of them was crucial to a meeting I would start with their availability and expect everyone else to fall into line. But for bigger meetings, where you need to find a slot and a room where you can fit such a huge number of people, I expect most people to understand these constraints. In this case it sounds like it's being facilitated by someone external, and they could only do Tuesdays. And since OP hasn't stated the size of the team, it could be that 50 other people are able to make it. I think that puts quite a different spin on it.