to think that 'thank you' and 'I'm sorry' are not the same thing?

[shouldprobablyturnalighton]

My partner enjoys drinking. I'm borderline teetotal, so we have very different opinions/levels on this. When we had children we agreed that he could do as he wished in the evenings as long as it didn’t impact family life. This includes not shirking responsibilities, like getting up with the children, when hungover.

This system is quite rigid, but with very young children and my lack of sleep, I can't handle others' irresponsibility, especially on weekdays. I imagine in a few years it'll relax, but that's not where we are right now. Despite a few hangovers, he's been good about sticking to our agreement and managing his responsibilities. We usually give each other a lie-in day most weekends and allow for planned fun (i.e. if there's a work night out, birthday, or a late night with friends etc) without worrying about early mornings so there is still capacity to let your hair down pretty regularly.

However, last night (Sunday) he stayed up until 2 a.m. and drank so much that he was vomiting this morning. He then took a long shower, monopolising the only bathroom and rendering himself unavailable. On a Monday morning, when we all need to be out by 8 a.m., this caused chaos. If I'd known he wouldn't be available, I would've adjusted my routine accordingly (got up earlier for example). Instead, I ended up rushing and snapping at the kids, which I now feel terrible about because it wasn’t their fault.

We managed to get out the door and to school/work, but we were all late and harried. Over lunch he's just nonchalantly said "Thank you for giving me space this morning."...and I honestly didn't know what to say. Something about the phrasing implies there was no fault, as if everything the rest of us did this morning was out of kindness rather than simply coping with an unexpected situation.

He doesn't understand why I'm upset. He doesn't see how 'thank you' and 'I'm sorry' are different, or why in this situation an apology would have been more appropriate given the inconvenience directly caused by his actions.

Am I being unreasonable?

YABU - 'Thank you' is as good as 'I'm sorry'. The acknowledgement is all that matters
YANBU - They're different and in this situation 'I'm sorry' was more appropriate.

I think it indicates that he isn’t sorry. I don’t apologise when I’m not actually sorry because it’s meaningless. But I think if you’re still arguing about this hours later then the issue isn’t “thank you” or “I’m sorry” but something a lot bigger in your relationship.

If I'd known he wouldn't be available, I would've adjusted my routine accordingly (got up earlier for example). Instead, I ended up rushing and snapping at the kids, which I now feel terrible about because it wasn’t their fault

Why would you bend over backwards to accommodate his drinking? Taking it out on your kids is not on. Is he an alcoholic?

Sounds like he knew he should apologise because he was in the wrong and just didn’t want to because it would curtail his behaviour more in future

So he said ‘thanks’ 🤣 it’s well known that that is a psychological encouragement to repeat the behaviour the thanks was for

in this case that’s you all letting him off causing chaos

he’d like you to repeat that

so he can repeat his behaviour with less/no censure

Sorry and thank you go hand in hand in my book, but when you get the thank you without the sorry it’s imo an attempt at manipulation because they aren’t really sorry, like Comtesse says.

I think the bigger issue here is that he was up drinking until on 2am on a Sunday to the point he then vomited. That is super extreme behaviour (and I'm not one of those teetotal only a sherry at Christmas mumsnetters). If this is not a freak one off than I would suggest that your DH's drinking sounds really problematic and is the bigger issue which needs addressing.
I would be upset if my DH behaved in that way, would expect an apology and would receive one as he would be mortified by his behaviour and the impact on his family.

To be fair it isn't hours later, has only just happened over lunch and then I've gone back to work (or procrastinating on mumsnet anyway!). I was so astounded by the strength of his resolve that a thank you should suffice and his surprise that I was more upset by the 'thanks' than the behaviour that I was concerned I'd missed some social cue and was being unreasonable in my reaction.

I'd guess it was more likely to be football related and he's either a city fan celebrating their season win, or a Liverpool fan commiserating the loss of their 9 year manager. Rather than an alcoholic.

Still shouldn't let alcohol impact your family household. We went to the pub and came home after, no need to get obliterated on a school night...

I'm thinking about when I'm actually ill with flu or whatever (not booze) and can't manage the kids. I always thank my husband for stepping in. I never apologise though.

Although to be fair this is a different matter. I mean most of us have had the odd hangover. I get that sometimes your with friends etc and just don't realise how many you've had if you are having fun. However not a regular occurance.

It's happened to both of us once or twice over the years. I can't remember if we apologised for it though. The other just sort of got on with it.

However if he's regularly drinking to such an extent then he should be apologising abd getting help

It not good behaviour, but I actually think thank-you in that situation is better/more valuable than sorry.

Sorry has no meaning really, especially where the behaviour is repeated, but thank you acknowledges all the extra you had to do.

The thank you would really annoy me. It's the same as when the person on a till says 'thank you for waiting'. It's just being dishonest about there being a problem, whether that is head office not staffing the store or him causing family chaos. It's this weird pass-agg thing that is intended to put you in the wrong if you then complain. It implies that you did what you should have had to. But you shouldn't have had to.

He caused a problem. He needs to acknowledge that. Needs to be a sorry, whether it's as well as or instead of. It's not the thank you that's the problem it's the lack of sorry.

No, I'm sorry and thank you are two completely different things, albeit with some overlap at times. His "thank you" is basically saying, "I know that it was pretty shitty of me to go out so late and create such chaos but I'm grateful you were okay with it" vs "I am so sorry - I should not have done this".

However, while nothing irritates me more than men going out and being annoyingly drunk and useless the next morning, if this is a once off, I'm not sure I fully understand why you're quite so worked up and it does rather sound like your issue is with drinking in general, more than than this specific event.

Yeah he’s not sorry. “Thank you for giving me the space to do XYZ” is the kind of therapy speak to allows you to avoid accountability. I’ve seen a trend of reels of people saying “instead of saying ‘I’m sorry I’m late’, say ‘thank you for waiting’” - it pushes the accountability away from the person in the wrong and doesn’t actually rectify the issue.

Yeah I hate it tbh. My step dad was an alcoholic, as is DH's dad so we're both pretty sensitive to it. But idk, he isn't hiding his drinking which is always the big red flag imo. Whilst he drinks a lot more than I do it's not really fair to compare his drinking to mine, because I'm extreme in the other direction. He has a glass or two of wine probably 4 or 5 nights a week, and the occasional whiskey...I guess maybe a few times a month. Which judging by what I read on here/in books/ see on the tv isn't that unusual?

In the pandemic he was getting really cross about the fact he felt like he couldn't have a guilt free drink in his own home without me worrying it was too much/judging about it which is where we came up with the 'you do you as long as it doesn't affect us' rule. I'd rather it was less, from an expense perspective, but he buys alcohol from his own account rather than the household money so it feels like it's kinda up to him.

He's 'accidentally' drunk this much (As in, it wasn't an occasion or anything like that, he's just sat down of an evening to watch sport or play playstation and lost all impulse control) maybe 4 or 5 times in the 10 years I've known him. When we discuss it he says it's how he unwinds, and it doesn't happen often that he isn't able to parent or work the following day so that's all there is to say about it.

It sounds like he has a drink problem tbh and I wouldn’t tolerate it. It sounds as if you have decided that you have to tolerate it for reasons best known to yourself. And therefore you have sent him the signal that’s it’s OK.

So in his mind he has done nothing wrong and to use the logic of the relationship he’s kind of correct.

If it bothers you (and it would bother me) you might have to face up to a bigger and potentially more uncomfortable question about the role alcohol plays in his life.

I am admittedly quite hardline about this but I grew up with an alcoholic for a father. I don’t think it’s normal for a man with kids and a job to be routinely drinking to the point he vomits: the impact on your kids will be negative and long lasting. I would leave. If you decide to accommodate it though you have to accommodate it. There aren’t really half measures with alcoholism.

In that situation, I would want an apology face to face and not via text. If I’d received a sorry via text I’d be mad because you can’t convey sincerity via text. You’re only sorry if you don’t repeat your actions. So for the moment, a thank you for giving space would be fine but when I got home I would be wanting an apology and a stepping up of household chores this evening.

You said he’s usually quite good though and sticks to his responsibilities when hungover. I’d be worried there has something that triggered drinking to that extreme on a Sunday night.

this, with the caveat that OP hasn't commented on this being unusual or a complete outlier - I've been throwing up drunk myself as an adult so not judging it per se, but VERY OCCASIONALLY, and not since my 20s - when I still misjudged how much I could handle.

If I did that now I would be mortified and there would usually be an explanation behind it - i.e. I hadn't drunk for x months or was feeling unwell beforehand. An adult drinking to excess regularly enough that that isn't the part of his behaviour that concerns you, just the lack of apology, is far more worrying than the exact wording he used.

If he was up that late, and was that drunk, why did he need to go in the shower around 8am anyway? Most people that ill would have slept it off. Please don't say he then drove to work....

edited because saw your most recent update - yeah randomly getting absolutely wasted to the level of vomiting in the house alone because he doesn't have any impulse control is NOT normal, and a seriously worrying sign. Really not within the bounds of normal drinking.

It was face to face. Totally agree with you there. The whole chat felt pretty deflective though, like it's easier to get defensive about me wanting an apology than it is to actually reflect and admit responsibility.

I did ask him what happened and he said he was enjoying a nice wine whilst watching the golf, then the wine and the golf finished and by that point he'd had too much to be sensible so he had a whiskey and put the playstation on, then suddenly it was 2am and he realised he was totally trashed.

It doesn't happen often, but it happens.

You are trying to work around your husband's alcoholism, when you would be better to tell him to seek help or you will leave him. Because you can put as many boundaries in place as you like, with rules about when he drinks and so on, trying to reduce the impact on you and DC, but one by one they're highly likely to come tumbling down as his problem escalates. Not to mention, it's not much of a life, spent in a state of constant harm limitation.

the glass or 2 of wine most nights is technically enough to count as binge drinking and is quite a lot more than recommended, but as you've said is probably within the range of normal behaviour, albeit on the far side of average.
getting drunk to the point of vomiting alone in the house for no reason is far from normal, or healthy.

So he wasn’t even out he was drinking at home on his own on a Sunday night to the point he made himself sick?

Sorry OP this is probably hard for you but that is definitely problem drinking territory. You have obviously normalised this and I understand why because I did it but this isn’t good.

I’m sorry but you need to think about the impact on your kids.

He needs to address why he drinks to that degree on a normal night at home. Most addictions are about drowning something out.

I did ask him what happened and he said he was enjoying a nice wine whilst watching the golf, then the wine and the golf finished and by that point he'd had too much to be sensible so he had a whiskey and put the playstation on, then suddenly it was 2am and he realised he was totally trashed.

Might just be me but how can a grown, married man with kids get absolutely smashed whilst on the Playstation on a Sunday night???

Me and DP love a drink at weekends (and occasionally on a week night if it's a particularly stressful week!) so I'm certainly not judging anyone but we know we have responsibilities and work on "school nights" so always knock it on the head after 2-3 drinks and get to bed by 10pm (usually have to be up at 6am!)

Does your DH work @shouldprobablyturnalighton ?

Is he generally incapable of apologising? Some people are just unable to admit they are to blame for something.
As an isolated incident, I think the fact he thanked you was decent (although I agree he really should have apologised). He probably has that morning after shame and anxiety.
As part of a pattern of behaviour, it’s more concerning. As is the family connection to alcoholism. It’s surprising easy for a couple of nights drinking a week to turn into a significant problem.

I think maybe it was his nonchalant tone of voice that annoyed you more than the words? So if he'd said "thank you so much for picking up the slack this morning, I know it was a pain and I really appreciate it" then that would have been as good as an apology?

YANBU to be irritated!

He shouldn't be drinking on a work/School night. He clearly has an issue with impulse control. That doesn't make him an alcoholic in the litteral sense but it does put him In danger of getting there, if he doesn't stop the regular drinking.

I find I to have an issue with impulse control, so I don't drink at all unless I have no responsibilities the next day but at this point, I'm even fed up of doing that, so I've decided to give it a rest from here on in. I'll drink at social events but nothing more than that from now on.

I've just come to realise that it doesn't actually make me happy, maybe it starts off doing something positive but my lack of impulse control means all that is obliterated and it will start affecting my health.

My dad was an alcoholic OP, it runs in families I've seen it all to often. It goes one way or the other. Your either very anti alcohol or you go the otherway and end up one. I fear your husband is heading down the latter route. I worry for myself alot also, hence my decision to change the way I'm living my life.

Happily I didn't get anywhere near regular daily drinking as I have alot of responsibilities and a requirement to drive most days,and I would never drink if I have to drive the next day.

He's also deflecting to allow him to drink. Ie blaming you for not being able to drink in his own home etc. Your not being unreasonable in asking him not to drink on days that he has responsibilities. Deep down he knows your right and he shouldn't be doing it, but he's persuaded you differently so that he doesn't have drinkers guilt.

I don't know your exact situation but drinking 4 nights a week only 1 or 2 is probably OK, that's how people are recommended to drink but if he's binge drinking heavily in between that or drinking more than 1 or 2, then he needs to wake up to the road he's headed down or already well on the way to a horrible destination.

Yes, that would have placated me a lot more.