To think that no newly qualified lawyer can be worth a salary of £150k?

[Molemole]

I’m a private practise solicitor in the south west. I serve my community and have worked my way up to partner in our small firm. Aged 56 I make £60k a year.

I’ve just read that lawyers at snobby london firms like Freshfields and Linklaters are now paying their trainees more than me. They are paying newly qualified lawyers £150k plus bonus.

How can anyone be worth that with 6 months experience in that area?

I worked as a consultant straight out of grad school. It’s a similar situation. Crazy high salaries, expense accounts, billion dollar clients, and work weeks that destroy personal lives and send people to early graves.

That salary is a pittance compared to the billable rates being charged and the hours people are putting in.

its amazing training. I eventually decided to step out for a slower and more ethical path and was able to secure my dream job. I don’t regret my time in the trenches at all.

I’m not entirely convinced that this is for real. Even at law school people know what earnings are in different firms. Also it would be updated in the Law Society Gazette etc.

What demographics summary are you referring to?

To add to this, the money used to increase the wages for NQ lawyers was (I’m almost definite) taken out of the non lawyers bonus/pay rises and they are currently taking the fall out with extremely low bonuses and pay rises this year. And I’m talking barely in the three digit type bonuses for qualified and experienced staff at a ‘top law firm’.

A law degree (or mine was) is a lot of work as in large volume of subjects. Not particularly academically rigorous I’d agree and that tends to follow through to a lot of solicitors, albeit barristers are a different story.

And yes before anyone starts it was a good university

An NHS consultant won't be working 60-70 hours per week. That's why they are able to do one day a week private practice

By that stage, all candidates will have had three years of identical teaching at university, so they enter the fray on a level playing field. By that stage, where they went to school is immaterial.

Nor will an NHS consultant be generating income well in excess of their salary. MC lawyers aren't being paid for the fun of it, they're being paid to generate income/profits for their employer.

Perhaps an independent/private school education gives them confidence to work for millionaire clients, have broader experiences and broader knowledge, etc., to enable them not only to do the job as a lawyer, but to generate high levels of fee income, nurture new clients, develop new products/services in the future as their career develops.

Oh what twaddle. A couple of my good friends who work in MC firms both went to comprehensives. They did get firsts in law from Oxbridge though.

Seems bonkers, why pay one person 150k and make them work 100 hours a week when they could pay 2 people 75k for a more reasonable 50h?

They don’t at all as top firms look at A Level results and expect A*AA and Magic Circle at least AAA so I’m pretty sure that where you went to school probably helped you get those results.

Also it’s simple things as in someone with decent A Levels from a different background might not realise the significance of having Durham, Bristol or Exeter on their CV as opposed to South Wales University.

Because people with the intellect, academic record, work ethnic and talent to fill those roles are in short supply. There’s a war for talent that (amongst other factors) is driving the pay rises at NQ level.

@parkrun500club I think I get excellent work from the lawyers we instruct - I posted later about the very human approach I take notwithstanding the urgency and sometimes very anti social hours.

But sometimes you can't put it off - if the agreed commercial deadline is x then the law firm needs to get the work and start working as soon as possible. If more time is available then they get as much time as needed. But if the deal needs to close next Wednesday and the law firm says oh we can only start on Monday, it isn't possible to use that firm. I may use them for a different type of work where it is less deadline intensive and they have expertise that is valuable to us.

The main point of my original post is that it would be manifestly unfair and bad for business for partners to be taking home millions and their juniors to be earning eg £60k when they are staying up all night and cancelling their social lives.

None of this justifies any of the large salaries and I am not endorsing the system (which I am part of and don't always like). But I can see reasons why the salary levels have got that high and therefore responded.

Im not sure that there really is - it’s a hair’s breath between candidates.Many competent people would want the job even if they were paid £50,000 less.

Moreover I’m not convinced that someone good at Classics with an A* would make a better lawyer then someone who got an A in Maths A Level.

The law firms are not working to dampen down pay demands and are competing to an extent it will become unaffordable.

The odd things is that more senior partners jn top 50 or even top 25 law firms often themselves went to fairly average universities.

I’m a partner in the London office of a US law firm. Yes, NQs get paid a lot of money. NQs at US firms get paid more than MC firms. Yes, they work incredibly hard - as do I and everyone I work with. It doesn’t get easier, you just get used to it. I miss a lot of bedtimes. You can’t succeed in the career being solely motivated by money, you also have to get a buzz from the work and like the people.

In response to your questions about diversity, it’s considerably better than it used to be, but there is more to be done. Most firms use screening software now to put context around school grades, which removes your argument that “where you went to school probably helped you get those results”. But yes, you will have had to go to a good university because, frankly, a degree from South Wales University isn’t the same calibre as a Bristol, Durham or Exeter.

They work ridiculous hours. Those magic circle companies own their employees. I'd far rather be in the suburbs on 60k.

You clearly do not know many NHS consultants. I know many, and very few of those I do know, do any private work whatsoever. My partner (now a retired consultant) was working one hundred hours plus when training and 60 to 80 as a consultant. Things have changed but they are still pretty grim.

I know at least 10. They ALL do private work one day per week!

Agreed. Sounds highly unlikely.

If it is real not surprised they are only on £60k as a partner given that level of articulation.

I’m sure that the lecturer’s interpretation of the impact of say Central London Property Trust Ltd v High Trees House Ltd on estoppel would be the same at that university as any other.

Quite frankly tort, trusts or contract etc is just a slurry of slogging through the same cases where ever you study and probably using the exact same text books.

Some very bright and highly intelligent people went to South Wales university eg Asif Kapadia. He might have decided to do a law conversion and apply to a top law firm but be turned down.

odd that @Molemole never came back!

no posting history!

Dh worked for a magic circle firm from trainee to partner level. They pay silly money for the fact that they own you. He would routinely have to work all-nighters as a trainee, and holidays were often cancelled with no notice. One year he had to work on Christmas Day because his clients were in a country that didn’t celebrate it. That was just part of the job.

God, imagine looking back at your life and realising you cancelled multiple holidays and missed out on events with family and friends just to make some corporation richer.