To think that no newly qualified lawyer can be worth a salary of £150k?

[Molemole]

I’m a private practise solicitor in the south west. I serve my community and have worked my way up to partner in our small firm. Aged 56 I make £60k a year.

I’ve just read that lawyers at snobby london firms like Freshfields and Linklaters are now paying their trainees more than me. They are paying newly qualified lawyers £150k plus bonus.

How can anyone be worth that with 6 months experience in that area?

Speaking to a friend who is a prof at a university - he said they held a coffee morning for the students who had completed a Phd and joined industry rather than academia - he said the surprising thing they all found was how well they were all treated in industry - they hadn't experienced the corporate cut-throat culture and were very happy they'd moved away from academia.

then I’m very surprised you don’t understand quite how different legal practice is from a law degree.
but to your point about the latter, most of the people I know who did academic law during the conversion course after another degree say they found law far more difficult. Trying to squeeze all the compulsory subjects into a year doesn’t help, of course.

You're being very naive OP

London has always had top earners and the recruit the cream of the crop

Some are worth and others not do the latter won't last but will still manage very well elsewhere

And can’t spell practice. Very odd.

Honestly, I don't think you should be spening time wondering why their salaries are so high but instead why your salary is so low for a partner .....

@ArchaeoSpy has it on the nose - and IMO it's mainly competition. My MC NQ salary some years ago was supposed to be around £30k but then the US firms started arriving in London and salaries quickly went up to £50k. Even then we worked all the hours on huge deals, but for much less (though obviously house prices and cost of living were less of an isuse).
US firms often don't run training contracts in the UK so don't have the associated costs but do need to recruit from elsewhere at NQ level so high salaries help them with that.
And when times are hard the numbers will be unsustainable, so I expect US and City law firms will make quicker and deeper job cuts than they have in previous recessions.

@LittleBearPad you might be surprised. Lots of ex-MC lawyers just choose a different path, we don't forget how to do or resource complex multi-national transactions. Many lawyers at regional firms are excellent, ambitious and driven, and may not mind working long hours from time to time, they may just not want to do it all the time - or for people who don't appreciate it or treat them like adults.

As PPs have said, when you look at the hours others work for much less money and with much more that matters at stake, it puts it in perspective. Even when I moved to a SC firm, my salary was more than double that of my neighbour who was an NHS Consultant. I would have been bonkers to believe my "worth" or her "worth" was reflected in our salaries.

I think that's a given; degrees in any subject area are different from their practical applications.

They probably did find law much more difficult, as you say, due to the condensed aspect of it. Friends of mine who have done shortened courses such as the one year PGCE (as it was previously known), 2 year nursing conversion etc said how they found it harder than their previous degree, however this was more than likely due to the condensed aspect of it.

You sound very bitter OP - nurses in the US make that. It's probably about time firms in the UK started paying people fairly for the work they do.

I don't know anyone who was 'super bright' who went into law, it was a mix of people who wanted to do the provincial practice with a safe and reliable profession with a good salary living in the location they wanted (presumably like the OP) and those who were willing to sell their soul to chase the money in London. The 'super bright' people I knew all wanted an intellectual challenge and were less worried by the salary so did PhDs and went into research either in academia or in industry, basically they wanted to be more creative than law allows.

Maybe they’re better than you?

YABU to refer to them as snobby London firms. 60k for a partner sounds very low. I hope you enjoy your job, but I'm guessing you practice in an area of law that isn't very lucrative, or you aren't able to get high paying clients.

At the end of the day, like any profession, there's a wide spectrum. The solicitor who sorts your bog standard house sale might be super clever but they don't need to be to follow a fairly basic process; the solicitor negotiating terms for a multi million acquisition probably does need to be very intelligent. These firms want the best of the best and need to pay what the market demands to get it.

@SingleMummyHere1
I think the real intellectual demands of law come much later - usually at partner level or as a judge or barrister. It’s having to design a whole transaction or see how some small change in the facts or law affects your client’s position or apply old law to a new technology / business model, often under severe time pressure.

I work in tax, which is quite technical. Getting your head round the rules can be tricky but applying them to real situations and deciding between various options is a different level. It’s nothing like learning the ratio of Donoghue v Stevenson. It’s the equivalent of claiming that rocket science is easy because you passed GCSE physics.

I agree there are plenty of more intellectually demanding careers that pay less and what law really requires is very good analytical ability, which is not the highest form of intelligence. But intellect is certainly a key factor in our recruitment process, not because it’s required to put together a bundle etc. but because it’s usually required in future partners.

To be honest, your salary sounds really low. I'm a teacher (Head of Department) and I also earn more than you. Partner of a law firm, only £60k?

You are extremely underpaid for your experience/level in the company if you’re working full time.

This is a You problem not a them problem. Ask for more or move where you’re paid properly.

Unless you’re working many less hours and/or for pro-bono work,
youre underpaid/

A lot of London lawyers are getting the London factor in their pay.
8-8, commutes for an hour each way, stressful workloads.

I don't think any client would think an NQ for £X amount per hour is worth it and I find it hard to believe an NQ is worth that - but as other people say, they're absolutely beasted for it.

I always thought (when I was just out of uni) that firms who had gyms and GPs on site sounded amazing not realising it meant you'd never leave the work.

I'm in a top 20 firm but wouldn't want to be in a MC firm.

Magic circle is where the big ££ is

The short answer is they are not worth it. I speak from experience of having worked in City law for 20+ years.

There was huge wage inflation post-covid. It was focussed at NQ level. Charge out rates could only go up so much without driving clients away so there is now a lot of salary bunching. You used to be able to expect a decent pay rise each year as you gained more experience but the increases are now small with many experienced lawyers just below partner level (who really add value to a team) paid little more than the NQs. I was a partner in an international firm and saw the salary spread and wage increases across the team. We lost some really good senior associates who were pissed off at their unimpressive pay rises.

Regardless of worth it or not, it’s not a life I would wish on anyone. My friend’s daughter is one of these super clever new recruits. Never sees her boyfriend, has to cancel evening plans and holidays at short notice and works hideous hours. A shell of her bright bubbly self. My friend was so proud and now all she does is worry.

OP you may not have the salary but I daresay you have an easier life, if what you say about your salary is true.

One of the Magic Circle firms is now starting NQ's a £180K.
An NHS consultant would be lucky to get that after 20 years.
Nice to know that we have our priorities sorted.

I’ve been lucky enough to work with a fair few magic circle partners and KCs; these are super-bright people. The analytical ability, the command of detail, the articulacy can be awe inspiring.
thats why they get paid a lot ….

Spot on!!!

Law firms manage their junior people do very, very badly. This has not improved over the nearly 30 years since I qualified. When will the model finally break?

No, they're not. However, I don't suppose a newly qualified solicitor is really what they are paying for. They are using the salary to attract the best graduates who are money motivated and will moulded into experienced practitioners in the future. Along the way, they can weed out the ones who don't make the cut.

OP, it's a completely different market. I'm the same as you, a qualified chartered accountants whose never even been paid enough to be a higher rate taxpayer as I'm working out in the sticks with a very small private practice. The fact your qualification is the same is completely irrelevant. The market, the customers, the type of work will be massively different. A bit like an expensive boutique hotel compared with a seaside B&B or a pair of Louboutin shoes compared with Tesco's own label - do the same job, but very different market/clientelle. I used to get annoyed at seeing younger and what I thought were less experienced accountants working in Big 4 firms earning 2/3/4 times what I earned, but then I realised that I'd not get near the kind of work they're doing, i.e. multi million pound deals, highly complex structures, etc., compared with me preparing the tax return of a local kebab shop!

My son left Uni last year and has got a job in one of the UK's largest pension/insurance firms, earning an absolute shed load considering his lack of experience and that he's basically "just a trainee", but, by God, they work him hard and have very high expectations from him, already chairing meetings, dealing on a daily basis with their branches throughout the World, dealing daily with figures of tens of millions of pounds. It's Worlds apart from the kind of thing he'd be doing in a local private firm of insurance brokers or financial advisors even though he's doing the same studying/exams for the same professional qualifications!

These are the cream of the crop and top of their game - ie MC partners and KCs. NQs are not (yet). And so many flop. Academic distinction and surviving a training contract does not itself a great lawyer make!