Public Meltdown - worst experience as a parent :(

[pleasejhelp]

Name changed because I feel like if anyone one saw this they'd recognise me. I don't know what my AIBU is, I just need someone to talk to.

I've got two DC. DS4 has SEN and an EHCP, no diagnosis but likely asd and adhd so I'm used to dealing with meltdowns and refusals and difficulty with transitions. DD6 had some characteristics of asd that I raised as a toddler but HV said no. I do find it coincidental that DS does have an EHCP now so think it is likely DD has some SEN going on. She is very much a perfectionist, very smart and does find it hard when DS doesn't follow rules.

I've just had the worst parenting experience of my life and I don't know what to do.

DD asked for some summer school shoes so we went to the local shopping centre after school. Had a look in one shop and they had none in budget. As we came out there is a branch of a book/toy shop and they asked to look in. I said yes and said they could have £2 pocket money each to pick something small. After 10 mins DD decided to keep her money and DS had wandered around without seeing anything, so I said at that point 'come on then, let's go' DD initially followed out happily, DS started to get upset and pull me back in.

I bent down to say we were going to the next shop now, and as I was explaining this to him DD6 had the biggest meltdown I have ever seen a child have. She threw herself repeatedly onto the hard floor, literally kicking her legs and banging her fists screaming 'I want a toy', I asked her to calm down and told both of them that this behaviour was not acceptable and there is now no way they are going to be having toys. I was being pulled by DS so was trying to explain to him why we came to the shops and what is happening next. I remained calm and tried to explain. DD was running around me stamping her fight, still screaming I want a toy.

I told her absolutely not and her behaviour was unacceptable. She then ran back into the shop and took a toy and brought it outside. I told her she had stolen a toy and to take it back in which she did. She then came back outside and continued screaming I want a toy and started hitting DS.

At this point, it was so bad 2 security guards came over to see what was happening. I am utterly humiliated and must've looked like the worst mother in the world. They were both utterly wild. I carried DS back to go the car and brought them home. I've explained there's no pocket money, no dessert and no iPad time for the rest of the month. I've sent them to their rooms to think about their choices. I feel like a complete failure.

I've just never seen anything like it, ever. Literally from any child, and I've worked with children for a long time. I don't think I could have done anything differently, I was on my own, I gave fair warning we were going to leave the shop, I gave consequences and opportunities for them to calm down. I'm just in shock, particularly about DD.

I suppose my AIBU should be

IABU - poor parenting

IANBU - Sounds SEN related

OP shoe shopping with a child with SEN is my hell. DD once tried on every, and I mean every, pair of shoes in her size in a shop. Every single one was 'wrong'. I was on the verge of tears, she was tantrumming, it was dreadful.

The worst I've ever seen was on a plane. The poor poor mum had a child on her (I think the child had ASD) who screamed and kicked for 8 hours. Older child so heavy. I was on the aisle and was all sympathy because goodness knows she was having a worse time than any of us. The mum and child were destroyed.

Yours is barely anything

Consequences; natural, immediate, not food-based and with empathy. It's a trick but it works. If you've been backed into a corner with the 2 weeks, give them a chance to 'earn back' the time. A favourite phrase in this house is, "how can we make this right?" Maybe a card to the shop people, maybe they apologise to each other and you, maybe the 6yo comes up with strategies for not being like that.

Sounds like you handled the situation as best you could, you only have 2 pairs of hands! I bet most people were sympathising rather than judging!

I feel for you, sounds like a rough afternoon. I actually think it sounds like you handled it pretty well, don't be too hard on yourself.

I feel your pain...I can barely go in a shop right now without my 2.5 year old throwing himself on the floor screaming. It also happens at the school gate a lot when I pick my daughter up. I live in a small town and feel like I'm always seeing the same people looking at me slightly pityingly...

I doubt anyone else took as much notice of it as you did, yet not to dwell on it too much.

I agree that you handled this really well and I can't see what else you could do. It's really just a matter of getting them home as soon as possible isn't it, but that's very tricky when your out and about

Our that sounds painful OP. Well done you for keeping your cool.
Don't hold a grudge tomorrow. It's another day. Have a chat about her bad behaviour, get an apology, and make up. But follow through with the no pocket money and no tablets (they are too young for them anyway) threat.

Like others, I am also going with neither option. Clearly not poor parenting, and may or may not be linked to SEN. Sometimes children go crazy for no other reason than they are children with developing brains and can't handle their big emotions so just let loose
My oldest is 8 bit I still vividly remember the meltdown in the wrapping paper section of Sainsburys at 4 years old when I would let her buy black paper for a 4 year old girls birthday present. There was screaming,rolls of paper flying across the aisle, I would have manhandled her out of there but I had had a c section a couple weeks earlier and she was the height of a 6 year old. There was no rhyme or reason why my previously very calm child completly lost it. It wasn't SEN. It wasn't poor parenting. It was a child who was struggling with emotions if having a sibling and not being our only focus, and she just lost it.
Be kind to yourself, you are doing great

I think @WiddlinDiddlin has nailed it. Loss of expectation can be so difficult to deal with. Given that you say it is the first time she has done this, it does seem like your reaction is both over the top and understandable. It must have been hard for you to deal with two unexpected meltdowns.

This video shows really well what shopping can be like from an autistic child's point of view.

you make it to the end m

Why don't you have a chat with her tomorrow to see if you can work out what triggered it. If you are suspecting neurodiversity, speak to the school about getting an assessment. It often becomes more difficult for them to cope as they get older. Do consider cancelling the punishment, it is almost certainly not going to make things better.

If I'd have seen that happening, I would have had nothing but sympathy and respect for you trying to manage, and I don't have children.

oh OP I remember those days -shopping with little kids sucks big time. You did the right thing.

If it help I once stepped over a tantruming DD1 in a supermarket, caught the eye of a disapproving shopper, tutted and said 'kids today -where ARE the parents?' and walked off!

helps!

You poor thing, it sounds like a nightmare shopping trip 😔 please don't feel embarrassed, you are not the first and won't be the last parent who's had to deal with a hideous meltdown - I bet those security guards have seen it all before. Have a long soak in the bath, wine and chocolate and chalk it up to a bad day. We all have them and things won't seem so bad in the morning. I wouldn't have attempted a shopping trip with mine after school at that age, they'd almost certainly be tired and unreasonable!

If it's any consolation, DS1 (and I) missed most of DS2's birthday party in an epic meltdown over tooth-brushing. Thanks to lockdowns, it was illegal to have birthday parties for the next two years and then he'd grown out of proper parties.

We've had shut downs in a sweet shop because DS1 couldn't cope with being in a different town and tens of different sweets to choose from. He ended up rocking in a corner with his head in his knees.

In y2, he would explode out of the school doors as he saw me. On the worst occasion which was the clincher for deciding that a referral might be wise, my shins had a rough time as we walked home, and it was 4 hours before he could cope with my presence without exploding again.

Many years and a few diagnoses later, shopping is still a minefield. It's bright, noisy, busy, lots of things vying for attention. Annoyingly DS1's coping strategy is to exert a bit of control in his life by winding his sibling up- not ideal!
Dividing and conquering where possible, choosing quieter times, incentives and focused trips help but aren't a total cure all. When I think back to being a young child, there were certain shops I hated and I'd end up hiding in clothes racks where it was quiet and dark.

Drop the additional punishments, they won't help. There's nothing wrong in acknowledging you went OTT and taking a more reasonable stance. It's actually healthy rolemodelling to children in helping them to recognise and reflect on their behaviour. It is worth talking about what happened and the feelings involved.

I can think of several occasions where my completely NT child (now 22 so I’m certain he’s NT) had meltdowns of enormous proportions in public and multiple small public ones. can’t tell you if it’s SEN or not but I can tell you that NT children can, do and will behave like this too. If it’s the first time and not regular it’s not worth worry about at the moment

OP I don't think it is realistic to expect a six year old to 'know better' SEN or not.

Have a look at https://www.peacefulparenthappykids.com/#learnmore and hand in hand parenting which both have really great resources around what meltdowns are about and how to support our kids as they work through them.

Kids (in fact few adults) can 'calm down' on command. Consequences / punishments just heap on fear and shame. So none of that is realistic or helpful and may well have made things worse.

Getting them out of there to somewhere quieter and keeping them safe with calm support that helps them understand their feelings ('I see you are very upset') but no judgement (so no 'Calm down!' or 'this is terrible behaviour') while the storm burns itself out is pretty much all we can do.

The Peaceful Parents site helped me to understand that it's very scary for the child when they are having a meltdown. They are overwhelmed and out of control. So they need our help to stay safe and know its normal to feel upset and angry, not unrealistic requests and judgement.

All of this is true of all kids, but especially so for SEN kids. SEN or not, how we respond to meltdowns matters a lot for their long term confidence and resilience.

If your younger one gets more allowances made, your older one maybe feels the pressure to be good / compliant and that's getting too much.

Lastly and as PPHK says, more than half the battle is avoiding stressful situations in the first place. Taking a 4 and 6 year old to the shops is TRICKY - what about ordering some options online your child can choose from at home and returning those that don't work?

I have a 10 and 6 year old and still would not take them both shopping together if I can avoid it (occasionally I take them individually, if I expect the shops to be quiet).

Leaving aside any potential diagnoses- look, she’s only 6. She went into the shop, decided there was nothing she wanted - deferred gratification, very grown up - maybe she’d seen something out of budget but knew she couldn’t ask for it - again, very grown up. She can hold that if you’re going straight out of the shop - but then there’s a delay - DS is getting your attention- something snaps.
I’m not saying this is what happened or that she could explain it all if it was what happened. But these sort of things happen when you’re a child, when something can be suddenly just too much to bear.
Im not sure if this makes any sense.

My ASD child would have these nuclear meltdowns a day or two before coming down sick, virus, tonsilitis etc Just a possibility if it was quite out of character and extreme.

Mine was a quick essentials only shop in an upmarket store, I needed four items. I'd already said never again by this stage but thought I could manage a trolly dash for four items. I was very wrong.

My little one was two years old and undiagnosed at the time. They took great joy in grabbing and throwing anything they could reach.

This horrible day, I had to move the trolley briefly to let someone pass us, I always kept it in the centre of the isle so they couldn't reach the stock. In that split second they managed to grab a jar of pasta sauce and then immediately threw it at a lady who was shopping. It hit the floor in front of her trolly and covered her in pasta sauce. I wanted to die of shame. The lovely shop assistants sorted us all out, but what a mess, and that poor customer.

I don’t think it changes anything if I reiterate that I don’t think it’s something to feel embarrassed about at all.
i had something similar happen recently. It was out of character for my child. I actually didn’t punish them at all. I could see they just totally, irrationally lost control. I was pretty shocked by it and really curious about it. We talked after and along with other stuff I could see we managed to work out what it was.. i could see why these few things had come together and cause her to behave in a way she never normally does.
I’d see their outburst as less a reflection of you but what their inner world looked like on that day, at that time..

I saw a child having a huge meltdown a few weeks ago, exactly as you describe.

I didn't judge the mother atall, she had my sympathy. I doubt the people around you were judging you.

You poor thing that sounds horrendous for you. My autistic son used to do similar so you have my sympathy

ASD in girls is often so well masked that it goes undiagnosed into their teens and HV is not qualified to diagnose at all! It is very possible that your DD has additional needs and you saw the product of that. Even if she doesn’t sometimes the world is just too much. If she is normally well behaved I’d go and give her a hug and see if she is feeling better. She got overwhelmed and lashed out… it happens!

It's not saying that a month is too long because the behaviour isn't bad enough to warrant it. It's about the effectiveness of consequences and the knock on effect.

If you ban something for a month or longer, it might well make a strong effect in that moment, if the child is even aware of what you're saying to them which might not be the case if they're actually in meltdown. But in terms of making a strong impression about a totally new behaviour, apparently that's the one situation that it makes sense to dole out a punishment that's longer lasting.

However. OP used all the privileges she could think of and revoked from both kids. That then means you've got very little to go on with. If they misbehave the next week, what are you going to do then? You've run out of things to take away. If you extend the ban then it becomes meaningless. They just learn to adapt to life without iPads or whatever -plenty of kids do after all. You hear kids say "I don't get pocket money" when in the parent's mind, they are on a pocket money ban, they do get it, just not right now.

A short removal of privileges is very clear because they are still used to having that privilege and miss it, and can be linked to the misbehaviour. After a couple of days it becomes just normal life and it doesn't feel like a punishment any more.

But also, the other thing is that according to research it doesn't make a difference to the effectiveness of the punishment how long/severe it is, because the effectiveness of punishment on its own is very little. It only really works in conjunction with all the positive stuff like praising them for the behaviour you want to see, providing positive role models and clear expectations etc. Most of the time parents attribute good behaviour to the fact they have punished their children in the past and overlook all this stuff they are doing which is much more important/effective. But it's not true that punishment has no effect at all. It can speed up the positive messages which is why most behaviour management systems use both.

Sending you a hug. It must be so difficult and you did your best.

I'd reconsider the month ban, it really won't be effective.

The best strategy particularly for a child with SEN is an immediate consequence.

Perhaps if you really don't want to go back on your word, you could have DD 'earn' the iPad back quicker by setting small tasks that are easy for her to accomplish. Make it concrete, a general 'be good' isn't going to be helpful to her.