What do you do for dentistry?

[Rolson77]

Just received a letter to say that my dentist is going private. There is not one NHS dentist taking on new patients in the whole city. I work full time but am on universal credit and my son and I haven't been to the dentist for a very long time. Even when we had an NHS dentist they weren't able to offer an appointment as all their NHS dentists left. I can't afford any treatments under denplan. A filling alone is £120+. So wonder what the point would be in even going on denplan. So, is that it? We just don't go to the dentist? I have considered travelling further afield, but just feel like it'll be expensive and a nightmare. The nearest dentist to me taking NHS patients is in London, and the train there would cost at least £80/90 for me and my son.

Feeling deflated. What does everyone do for dentistry?

But it is true. Most (albeit not all) dental issues can be prevented via reducing, limiting or cutting out the sugary shit, and practicing good oral hygiene at home. I don’t see what is so radical and unbelievable about the notion. It’s what’s been drummed into most of us since childhood; whether or not we choose to follow the advice is a different matter. The invention, especially, of electric toothbrushes and water flossers has really revolutionised at-home dental care. I visit the dental hygienist twice a year, but could easily reduce it to one visit. I supervised my DC’s tooth brushing until he was nearly 10. He never had a cavity or other dental issue. I stopped supervising, and at his last hygienist appointment he had some tartar build-up; so I resumed supervising again until he sorted it out. It’s things like that that can also make a big difference in preventing dental issues from cropping up, especially in children.

Anyway, if you don’t believe me, you can refer to the posts of some of the people on this thread who are dentists. They seem to be saying the same thing—unless you think they are also spreading disinformation and untruths.

I work in an affluent area so my cohort of patients try and care for their teeth well. I would say that most of my time is spent repairing/ extracting/ replacing teeth that are already heavily restored, most from many years before. Doing new fillings in previously unrestored teeth is relatively rare.
Good oral hygiene etc doesn’t stop these teeth fracturing/ going non vital etc.
Gum disease is multifactorial but one of the main factors is genetics which we can’t do anything about.

There are definitely other cohorts of patients who eat all the sugar and don’t brush. I spend time teaching students to take their teeth out and make plastic dentures in my other job!

However I do believe there’s no excuse for children to have lots of decay. That’s parental neglect.

I worked in a very deprived area , the youngest child who had all their teeth out was 18 months. In my area half of all 5 year olds have decay.
The terrible thing is a child who has teeth out or alot of treatment young often becomes phobic and ,all too often, the changes in diet and cleaning are not made so that child is doomed to a life of bad oral health . Just like their parents who eat the same diet and also don't clean well as they believe they all have "weak teeth" and don't believe they can make the changes to give them a healthy mouth.

Very frustratingly we had many stable patients who, during COVID, upped their sugar and snacking and came in with so many holes to be filled. It was not unusual to see an 11 year old with 9 teeth to be filled, or an adult with twelve teeth decayed who doesn't change their diet and by the time you finished their fillings yet more decay had started.

Even in the middle class enclaves the constant snacking on "healthy" raisins, yogurts, granola bars,smoothies,fruit juice causes decay all too often.

With gum disease we know it is linked to so many inflammatory processes like heart disease, diabetes,miscarriages . We also know it can be controlled by lifelong increased oral hygiene. But people don't believe that , they want treatment they believe will cure gum disease when , really , the control is almost entirely in their hands.

Changing people's behaviour is the most difficult thing to do , even more so when you are fighting the tropes of "weak teeth" , "baby tooth calcium away from teeth" , I don't need to use floss/interdental brushes because I use mouthwash , having a scale cures gum disease etc etc etc

I’m in the same boat Op, just had the letter. Is £12 a month really worth it for just check ups? How much is a checkup privately?

My dentist discharged our entire family as we didn't have a checkup for a year (during lockdown when they were closed!) Since then we have only been able to find one a 5hr bus journey away for the kids. I need a root canal but I'm on high dose blood thinners and have an embolism at the moment, so I have to plan surgery in advance with the DVT clinic. I can't even have the tooth removed as an emergency when I'm in agony. Every couple of months I call the emergency dentist number and explain my face has swollen up, I'm drooling etc. They make me an appointment. Dentist says they won't do a root canal at an NHS emergency appointment as it's a £900+ treatment. They offer extraction or antibiotics. I tell them I'm on blood thinners and they give me penicillin and tell me to eff off. I've had to do this 3 times now. I've complained to NHS Gtr Manchester that people with blood clots (essentially a disability for me as I have a blood vessel disorder) are being provided with a lesser service than everyone else as we cannot use the emergency dentist. I've written to them twice in the last 6 months, and Healthwatch Bolton, and they have said multiple times they're "looking into it" but never get back to me. I suspect they have no solution because it would mean changing the entire system which they won't do for a handful of seriously ill people. Due to my current illness I'm on a low income. I can't afford treatment and insurance won't take me on in the past due to my disorder. I really don't know what to do. I've had steroids this last time as the infection got into my cheek and fluid build up in my sinus. I was asleep the other day and my pillow was wet through. Water was leaking from my nose after a popping sensation in my head. At least my head doesn't feel swollen any more! Honestly think this abscess will kill me.

@Sibs10 have you tried this one for the children? They're my dentist and they were taking on NHS children only
I'm on denplan with them

www.toothtalk.uk/bolton/about-us/

Emergency clinics are not set up to do complex treatment like root canals , and they are not set up to do treatment that cannot be completed in one visit . Your treatment requires a couple of visits and liaison with your consultant and emergency clinics which are manned by different people every day have no way of having a person to liaise and chase up information. That's the situation no matter who it is being treated .

treating patients with blood thinners is meat and potatoes to most dentists , many people are on them . It's just the logistics of liasing with consultants , timing and adjustment of medication plus other measures like packs and stitches that complicates things.

It may be that you , like your children, have to travel a long distance. It may well be that , after all this time, root treatment is not an option but you have to have the tooth out. However healthwatch cannot change emergency clinics and their equipment , you are better off spending your energy hitting the phones . Explain your problems and needing a tooth out and you may be lucky and get a surgery with a bit of capacity to see you. Keep on at it , as even an extraction cannot be handled at an emergency appointment , it needs planning and co ordination. Good luck.

That's really helpful - thank you! They're one of the ones I called yesterday while doing my monthly call round of every dentist in the north-west 😄 Unfortunately can't change DCs' dentist as they're having orthodontic treatment. Their dentist is really good. It's just a PITA to get to as the way buses are, I have to travel away from it to then get a bus in that direction. I've got Bennison my list if I have a sudden recovery and a windfall as they said they would take it out for £90 (plus xrays etc).

I agree with all your points - thank you! I'm just upset that if I didn't have the clots I would be able to get it taken out instantly and no longer be in pain. I know it's hard to believe but I have pages and pages of dentist phone numbers, times dates I last called, whether I'm on the waiting list, how much the private treatment is, when I should call back to be considered for an appointment... I sit down every weekday afternoon while DD1 picks DD2 up from school for me so I can call dentists. I'm now on those up to 50 miles away. All of the ones with a waiting list have said it's between 2 and 4 years long already.

Does anyone know if patients in England can see an NHS dentist in Wales or Scotland in case I reach the border before I find one? 😄

@Sibs10 oh that's good, they are very helpful

I'm actually leaving them due to distance

You cannot see a dentist in Scotland, you need a Scottish or border address as the NHS in Scotland does have registration, however even with this the Scottish situation is as bad as England.
You could probably see a dentist in Wales , but the situation in Wales is worse , if anything , than the situation in England , particularly North and mid Wales.

I went private.
I go to the local BUPA place. There was NOT an nhs dentist to be had in my entire large town.

I commented on this post earlier in the thread. I felt so lucky to have an NHS dentist. Went for check up today only to be told they're going private! My dentist has 1500 patients on her personal list - Denplan scheme will be available to first 600 who sign up, the other 900 will be able to get only private treatment. I've been with this practice for 35 years. Zero point in trying to find another NHS dentist in this area - local social media notice boards are full of comments from people who cannot find NHS provision, and simply cannot afford private treatment. This is a shame and a disgrace for which the Conservative Government are completely responsible. They have made political choices to wreck NHS dental and medical care with no regard as to the consequences for those at the bottom of the heap. I'm disgusted by the Tories, and can't wait for them to be thrown out at the Election! Nothing could be worse for the vast majority of the population than for them to remain in power. I'm a low income medically retired single person, but in the fortunate position I'll be able to pay Denplan monthly if I budget, to cover check ups. I have some savings to dip in to for actual treatment required - fillings, restorations etc are not covered under plan - just get 20 per cent reduction on private charges. I'm truly so sorry and upset for those who are simply having to go without treatment. I'm also angry that Rishi and co don't give a damn!

The UDA system that has killed NHS dentistry was brought in by Tony Blair in 2006. Conservatives haven’t changed a thing since then.

My DD was born in 1999, she has never had an NHS dentist, the situation was dire long before Labour, its now worse.

One reason is that after Brexit, professional qualifications weren't recognised for EU dentists, our local Polish dentists who whilst 'private did treat children very cheaply, packed up and went back to Poland after Brexit.

NHS dental treatment fees have hardly risen at all since 2006, £26 for a filling? needs to be around £100 at the very least.

Dental Services in the UK, do however, show what happens when we move from a state service to a private one.

I don't think that's true. EU dentists can still work over here at least for now. If they chose to go back to Poland or wherever after brexit that's fine but they could have continued to work and still can.

@PKNI
"My dentist has 1500 patients on her personal list - Denplan scheme will be available to first 600 who sign up, the other 900 will be able to get only private treatment"

This sounds like a sneaky way of scaring her patients into signing up straight away. I don't believe for one minute that they will close the Denplan list when it gets to 600.

Actually between 500 and 700 patients is around average for a dentist doing private treatment. My NHS list was around 3000!

One of the reasons dentists convert to private is that the rate at which you have to work on the NHS takes its toll mentally and physically and is not sustainable over a career. It's not the newly qualified who are converting ,who don't have the portfolio and experience to go private, but the experienced dentists who should be the ones buying ,running NHS practices and training the new generation of dentists.

Having far fewer patients means you don't have to have sit and wait toothaches, double booked patients , months wait for appointments , you can have much longer appointments , you don't run late as often and can have a lunch break and finish on time. All of which makes the job much less stressful.

I just don’t get dental care.

Children are private and that costs me enough.

I choose to go privately.

I am quite a tricky patient as I had to have extensive jaw surgery a few years back, still have issues with a jaw joint so I want a dentist and hygienist who give me enough time to deal with my specific needs, rather than a rushed NHS appointment.

I just had a check-up and panoramic X-ray, dealt with a permanent retainer that had come loose and that was about £95. Hygienist is next. Dentist took a lot of time to give me advice on how to better brush and floss and it is a lovely, friendly practice.

Thankfully no issues so won't have to do anything else this year.

Exactly - Conservatives have watched this happening over the last 14 years, and taken zero corrective action! I despair.

Same thing happened to us, our dentist went private so we left. I managed to find and NHS dentist for ds (11) but couldn't find one for dd (19) and me so we currently have no dentist.

Is this worth doing?

Not strictly true. Within months of the new contract rolling out it was apparent that it was crap. There have been numerous pilot schemes to change things but none have been judge a solution.
Add to this the pandemic, when it became apparent that NHS dentistry was actually quite important. So much so that we had to return to work face to face a lot sooner than most other parts of the service. You cannot treat dental emergencies with medication.
2020 was the year that proposed changes to the contract were going to be seriously considered. As per normal it was all shelved and some small adjustments made last year.

With Labour returning maybe they will fix the mess.