What do you do for dentistry?

[Rolson77]

Just received a letter to say that my dentist is going private. There is not one NHS dentist taking on new patients in the whole city. I work full time but am on universal credit and my son and I haven't been to the dentist for a very long time. Even when we had an NHS dentist they weren't able to offer an appointment as all their NHS dentists left. I can't afford any treatments under denplan. A filling alone is £120+. So wonder what the point would be in even going on denplan. So, is that it? We just don't go to the dentist? I have considered travelling further afield, but just feel like it'll be expensive and a nightmare. The nearest dentist to me taking NHS patients is in London, and the train there would cost at least £80/90 for me and my son.

Feeling deflated. What does everyone do for dentistry?

Is there a dental school in near-ish location to you OP? The students need people to practise on. I have no idea if this is still a thing but might be worth a look. I've put off the dentist for a year but have just booked me and the DC in for our first appt at a new practice. No NHS for miles around. It's a disgrace as even specsavers has NHS capabilities for eye testing and hearing I think? Why is there no dental provision anywhere on the high Street? Sorry to derail the topic, but it's all very unfair.

@Rolson77
Tavern Street in Stow

@Rolson77 literally just scrolled to end to say the same as above poster, have seen on local fb that Tavern Street in Stowmarket are currently accepting NHS patients

The NHS waiting list here is approx 12 years and we ended up going private about 2 or 3 years ago. It’s ridiculous and both DH and I have taken loans out to cover some extensive dentistry work.

My lovely cleaner was in agony with her teeth and was quoted £3k for dental work. Was cheaper for her to fly back home to Brazil and have the work done there.

The problem with this is that in Suffolk it started out like this then just before covid they started dropping even children off their NHS lists and going fully private. Virtually all dentists are private around here now and they have said its difficult to attract new dentists into East Anglia
meaning no new NHS provision. They are trying, but we are now paying private for both children, a lot of people just can't afford it. 😕

Tavern Street, Dental Practice, Stowmarket have recently been advertising for NHS patients so give them a try.

Actually no , for most dentists they will just get a few pennies or a couple of pounds on top of what a patient pays , some surgeries will get less than what a patient pays so , in effect , they pay the government back for every patient they see.

All practice expenses are paid out of what the dentist earns , there is no other subsidising or money coming in.

When a room in a NHS practice in a cheap area costs from £140 an hour to run you can see why so many dentists are leaving the NHS as dental inflation is running at 10% per year and what they earn , increasingly , is not even covering costs.

Because specsavers can make the money up on the cost of glasses.

vision express , years ago, opened dental surgeries hoping to repeat the opticians model , but quickly closed as dental expenses leave no room for the profit margins that an optician has.

A room in a dentist practice in a cheap area , doing NHS work, costs upwards of £140 an hour to run . The only money to cover all expenses is what the dentist earns by NHS piecework , which increasingly is not enough to cover expenses .

So a dentist has a choice , shut the surgery (BUPA closed 85 practice recently) , go bankrupt or go private .

The situation is getting worse as the cost of providing dentistry is going up by at least 10% year on year and fee increases are not even matching that . It would need a massive investment in dentistry even to stand still.

Single parent here, two children.

I work full time plus two evenings a week so the extra I earn from that helps.
Poor experience of nhs dentist when DD was little (I say that with a 23 years career in the nhs)
So now I pay - Check up is £25.00, xrays between 25 - 50.
Haven't had to pay for fillings.. Hygienist £70
Crown was about 400 but better experience than nhs.

Nothing, is the depressing truth.

No NHS dentists where I live at all. I had an infection, and had to go private to have the tooth removed (cost £150, and was gifted that from a family member who was worried about my health). I posted a thread on MN about coming to terms with a prominent tooth being missing, and many posters told me they would judge me and assume I was a junkie. Dentist quoted £700 for a bridge, but I am not sure it would be suitable anyway because of the layout of my teeth.

I lost my NHS dentist during Covid. Took off list for not going, but they were not seeing anyone!

I absolutely understand why dentists are not wanting to do NHS work, but at the end of the day, it is the patients who are suffering.

We go private. Get our teeth scaled and polished every 3-4 months. This helps keep fillings mostly at bay. But yes we also put some money aside for the inevitable emergencies!

I wouldn't be surprised if NHS dentists are leaving the NHS. Why wouldn't they? They'll go where the money is. Private work pays.

This is an issue with the public sector in general. The service runs poorly in part due to the knowledge there is always a constant stream of taxpayer money coming in, it's not much money, though, because once all the managers, directors and consultants have been paid their share, there's not much left for the actual dentists themselves. If it's not a constant stream then it's because it's coming directly from the patient, hence you then see the true cost of treatment.

There is a multitude of problems with the NHS, chief among which is the sheer size of the bloody thing. It's running at huge losses and it's continuing to grow bigger and bigger. It will eventually collapse and take out private practice with it and then there will be no healthcare. Ideally it needs modernisation and reform, but all the time people think that means to privatise it all, that will never happen.

I misunderstood the thread title and wanted to reply I did a lot for NHS dentistry bashing the ever failing Nash for 15 years before going private!
I also teach dental students. There is a small amount of capacity as a living “phantom head” for dental students. It’s free.
Requirements to be accepted:
be over 18
be medically fit and well with no mental or physical impairments
not be dentally anxious
be available for long daytime appointments- I would want a commitment to attend at least once a fortnight for 6 months (depending on what treatment is needed) arrive for 9.15 or 1.30 and be comfortable staying in the chair for about 3 hours.
be happy to not attend and just go to 111 if you have pain when we’re not open which includes exam time and university holidays.
once you are dentally fit we discharge to find a dentist. We don’t do routine check ups.

I had a NHS dentist who was rubbish (not because he was NHS). I think that he really cut back on things like offering xrays. Told me that a painful tooth was due to plaque - which he then charged me to clean. Happy to have my teeth cleaned, plaque is not good but he missed the infection that a new dentist found at the first check -up. Think every treatment decision for the NHS dentist was based on cost. He was also quite rude (clearly realised he was the only game in town). New Dentist is private and I am lucky that I can find the money to pay. I know this is a small thing but I do feel happier because I was tired of thinking 'must make this work because he is the only dentist' OP it is a really bad state of affairs.

None in my area. I just pay privately. I don't have loads of cash but I can afford check ups and have had one filling.
Other than that I brush with an electric toothbrush, floss, mouthwash etc. and don't have sugary drinks to try and stave off any issues

Freshgreenmintleaves, you aso say in later post that 80 per cent of dental problems are avoidable. That still leaves 20 per cent that aren't. It's really not as simple as you believe.

You completely disregards children of the 60's like me. We grew up without fluoride in toothpaste or the water supply, no dental floss, electric toothbrushes or dental hygienists. We suffered the effects of very aggressive dental practice, where tiny cavities were filled, and fillings replaced often with larger and larger ones. This resulted in mouths full of very heavily filled teeth, crowns and bridges, which require extensive maintenance over the years.

Private treatment for that lot is beyond the reach of many. My dentist tells me my oral hygiene is excellent, but I still require treatment as old work crumbles over time.
Many people have worked and paid taxes and national insurance for a long time, only to find themselves completely abandoned by this government when it comes to dental care.

And it is a national disgrace that today's younger population, including children, cannot access all the dentistry and other healthcare they require when they need it. The cost of living crisis means that very many really cannot afford medical insurance of any kind.

Too many people who can afford to go private seem to take their privilege entirely for granted. Some of them will have a terrible shock in their own time of need should circumstances change. Of course some are so financially safe and secure that this won't happen to them. I just don't understand how they sleep easily in their beds, knowing that their fellows are in dire need.

NHS dentistry and the NHS in general can be saved with the political will to so. I'm REALLY not well off (income now so low I pay little direct income tax as I'm not much above the threshold), but I'd happily contribute more for better services. It seems to be those at the top who don't accept the extent of their social responsibilities.

This is not always true.

Thanks to the monster of an NHS dentist I had back in the 70s, by the age of 13 my teeth were in such a bad state (he had performed silver fillings on every single tooth ever in my head to that point and damaged all the teeth yet to finish growing through) that the dentist was going to call social services on my parents when we moved house and went to a new practice.
Back then, it was really rare for people to call SS, that is how bad he saw it as.

After Xrays, he apologised to my parents as it became apparent that you'd need a full set of dentist tools to do the damage which had been done to my adult teeth.

I was the oldest child so my few years younger sister managed to get away with far less damage and my much younger brother was still a baby with perfect teeth.
On the exact same diet and toothbrushing schedule, what is left of my 'natural' teeth makes me look like a meth addict while my siblings look like they could star in toothpaste commercials.

I'm still living with the fallout decades later and no amount of brushing my teeth or running screaming at the sight of sugar is going to undo that damage.

I'm also not the only adult living with the fallout of the way some NHS dentistry was practiced back then. It was more like butchery.

There are also medical reasons why some people have more fragile teeth or need more treatment, so it's not all down to things the individual can control.j

Edited to add I now live in an area described officially as a 'dental desert' and there has been no availability for NHS dentists in the past 15+ years.
The only dentist appointments my son has ever had were when I paid for him to as a private patient - he didn't need anything other than the check ups, but who would know if you can't get those?

It's criminal what has happened to dentistry in this country.

The "true cost" of dental treatment in the NHS per patient treated per year is £34 including patient contribution, that's all a dentist gets to run the surgery, the NHS provides no other money. That pays every expense from the dentist, nurse,receptionist,materials,training,equipment , etc etc

With a room costing upwards of £140 an hour to run how much dentistry do you think a practice can provide on that without going bust?

There are 2 levels of Denplan. Denplan care which is what you’re on and Denplan essentials which covers check ups and hygienist.

My dentist said they looked for the best plans and found the Simply Dental one seemed to offer best value, we have that now. There are 3 or 4 levels of cover.

I just haven't been to the dentist in years. I had good teeth, no fillings etc, it never felt i got anything from the appointment.

I brush & floss v diligently and take good care of my teeth. My dad never went for 30 years and had nothing wrong when he did eventually go.

Well of course they have to pay rent and utilities. Do you expect all that to be paid for by the taxpayer aswell? With the way the public purse is abused, I wouldn't be surprised if every taxpayer just turned round and told the pissing government to shove it. I think the lesson here is that nothing is free, and that if you don't pay for things, someone else does

You completely disregards children of the 60's like me. We grew up without fluoride in toothpaste or the water supply, no dental floss, electric toothbrushes or dental hygienists. We suffered the effects of very aggressive dental practice, where tiny cavities were filled, and fillings replaced often with larger and larger ones. This resulted in mouths full of very heavily filled teeth, crowns and bridges, which require extensive maintenance over the years..

My mother was a victim of this. A generation of dentists performed masses of completely unecessary work and created themselves a lifetime of more expensive work. Its a travesty.

I have just been quoited £580 for two fillings to be replaced by my dentist (ouch) the plan I have will cover half of that but still. I can see upthread how it might cost that much though. Replacing molar metal fillings done in the 1990s.

The checkup (no scans) was 64 pounds. It was 24 pounds a few years back. It seems to have got a lot more expensive since covid.

This is precisely why most practices have to take on private work because NHS payment is not enough to pay the bills and private treatment subsidises it.
When I qualified around £95 out of every £100 spent on dentistry was spent on the NHS . Now it's around £45 out of every £100.

If the taxpayer wants NHS dentistry then the pay has to be enough to pay the bills , all of the bills and a grand total of £36 per year per patient treated does not pay the bills with the cost of providing treatment going up by 10% each year it becomes less and less economical.