Aibu to think some people try to raise their social status by virtue signalling?

[Primroseoil]

Aibu to think some people try to raise their social status by virtue signalling, going green or vegan etc? I know the majority of people have genuine reasons but I feel a minority are just virtue signalling, trying to raise their social status or fit in with a certain cohort. Aibu?

or maybe some people just care about things, like ethics. I would ask yourself why you feel so hostile towards people who are trying to do good things?

I’m a lifelong vegan, and I can spot a virtue signalling just turned vegan a mile off. I have, and will never, preach my views to others. But those who have recently converted to the diet are so bloody vocal.

YANBU - people love to be seen being virtuous, and they’re doing it for an ego boost, not the cause.

This 👆Also OP you have only directly replied to pp who agree with you 🤔

Mumsnet is broadly very conservative. Anyone seen doing anything differently or non mainstream is thought to be weird, odd, attention, seeking.

Yes it’s the zeitgeist atm that people feel the need to categorise themselves to align with a particular identity. You see it with a lot of movements both at the extreme left and extreme right; the extreme left do it out of a perceived sense of virtue but it’s all moral narcissism and has the potential to perpetuate division and create echo chambers where one never questions themselves or grows. Diversity of thought and identity is essential for supporting a tolerant world. If you pin your colours to one particular mast you lose the ability to change your mind or think in a more nuanced way.

I think it’s all tied to social media and the need to project a particular image or brand. A bit like selfies and the need to put oneself front and centre of anything they are doing, rather than just enjoying the landscape or the environment it has to be ‘me’ in the landscape. We are all utterly obsessed with our own self image.

I notice that the middle classes have a harder time becoming vegan or green than the poor folk, like me. I think eating meat is more ingrained, rather than I have only ever bought meat when I've been paid or if it's cheap. Same with holidays. Not a huge sacrifice to not fly when you're on MW.

There are people who are jus virtue signalling about social causes. They try a bit too hard an take things too far. They want to boost their SM profile or are pressured. My friend was like this. We look back and cringe.

But then we have people who think anything good is virtue signalling:

Choose not to eat eggs from battery hens? Virtue signalling.
Don't want us to shit on the environment? Virtue signalling.
Don't like Shein? You guessed it, virtue signalling.

If Miriam wants to go Vegan and recycle everything she owns. Good for her.

If she then goes on to make sure every single person she knows KNOWS she is vegan and recycling everything she owns, posting public TikToks to tell everyone who'll listen etc. is that doing it for good because she wants too or doing it for virtue signalling / attention?

Must be tiring being so cross about things that don’t affect you.

So true. It's possible that people really care about these causes.

As for the post about the family who have a green lifestyle but go on holiday multiple times per year, I don't see the issue. I'm sure they are well aware of their carbon footprint but also want good life experiences, so they do what they can at home to reduce their impact. Good on them.

I read an interesting article yesterday about social status being determined by idealistic beliefs, which impose sanctions on those of lower classes, while elevating you above needing to comply with those sanctions

eg being upper class would be believing that climate change is very important and that climate change protesters should picket at airports, while standing in the queue for your long haul flight to Fiji

The term virtue signalling seems like part of the culture wars rhetoric to me. Given how powerful big oil is and how embedded in our politics their lobbyists are it doesn't surprise me that there's a pushback against what are quite reasonable concerns over environmental issues.

I'd be more concerned about Lobbyists representing fossil fuel giants that are quietly helping run parliamentary groups on energy and climate policy without the need to formally declare their involvement. Or the millions in gifts and donations from climate sceptics and fossil fuel interests received by MPs since 2017 etc.

I know lots like that!!! Pious about those driving unnecessarily and the pollution it causes but wealthy enough to afford the fancy cargo bike then seem to forget their concerns when jetting off to Thailand or skiing every 5 mins

...then OP isn't referring to the people you know?

...then OP isn't referring to the people you know?

Or maybe op is just talking short because she doesn't like veganism or environmentalism? And maybe people aren't virtue signalling, they actually care? Learn what virtue signalling is, because it isn't anything you don't like?

Nobody is allowed to have differing opinions without being a Bad Person.

Ironically, that seems to be the motto of MN, dare to deviate and you're n the naughty step!

To an extent that has always been the case but it has certainly become worse recently, people want things in their lives but are not prepared to contribute, it's always 'their' responsibility, not mine. They are however quick to criticise those who do all the work! A general request for people to come and help tidy the Churchyard for a couple of hours on Saturday morning for example was met with the usual half a dozen with a mean age of over 70 but the next edition of the Parish magazine had contributors critical of the 'scruffy' churchyard!
I think the saying 'put up or shut up' is meant for them

I think a lot of people do stuff to virtue signal.

But bear in mind some stuff is harder to do than others.

If you decide to give up meat for example, that is pretty easy if you don't like meat. But if you do it's quite hard work, and not the sort of stuff people typically do on a whim.

I do tend to think people like to virtue signal about stuff that is of little impact on themselves. So for example a lot of people who don't drink go on about how bad drinking is. It's kind of like a free bonus they get to sound off and feel good about themselves, while often spending the rest of the time stuffing themselves with takeaways or chocolate.

Ultimately it is not hard to give up something you don't like. But if it is something you do like and you give it up "for a cause" that can be some significant effort.

An interesting thing about the term "virtue signalling" is that you can only signal something that you actually have. If these people are doing the good thing then they're doing the good thing. The advertising it perhaps is something to take issue with, not that they're actually doing good things.

I think the insight really is: people want to be thought well of by others and so people go to effort to advertise their positive points so that others like them. This isn't specific to the carefully curated list of activities you've listed. Talking about how many countries you've visited, how many football world cups you've attended, your partying and drinking stamina, the grades your grandchildren get, how wonderful a mother your daughter has turned out to be - Anything can be made to "signal your virtue" in a particular context. What makes it signalling is going from genuinely talking about these achievements to using them for social kudos.

It's completely disingenuous to say that only left wing coded activities like being vegan and supporting Palestine is like this. It's just those are the things that some people can't imagine being genuine about. More fool those people with poor imaginations.

Imagine if nobody ever did that though? It's a good thing to be vocal about injustices, animal cruelty, sexism, racism etc. It doesn't have to be virtue signaling just because people are posting about it, it's just something people are passionate about and they want to normalise their behaviour because they believe it's the correct way of thinking/living.

Sure, most of us are supporting Ukrainians (for example) in silence/behind the scenes, but for those who have fled or are directly affected by it it's nice to see widespread public support. The world needs activists and supporters otherwise nothing would get challenged. We can't just leave it up to world leaders and large companies to decide how we should live.

Okay, but say you were signposting your intolerance for animal cruelty by advocating and moralizing for the kind of welfare standards that would see the price of meat rocket and put of reach of people struggling with food budgets. That may not be an issue for them, they have a healthy income and they only buy the high welfare options at the local farmer's market anyway, blah, blah, blah. But the cost of their principles is dumped on the shoulders of those without their means and with no additional material burden on themselves.

Then there are the principles that cost them nothing at all but others pay a high price for the social fall out. Uncapped immigration levels that puts overwhelming pressure on local services somewhere else that they don't have to think about and gender woo in which the effects of agreeing that up is down are landing on some other women they don't know, those in prison and domestic violence shelters.

Well everyone should be allowed to express their opinions so if somebody wants to "campaign" for cheap meat that is sourced through questionable farming so that poor families can eat meat then they should do that. That doesn't mean that we all have to accept that animals are treated cruely and that it shouldn't be brought to attention because we want to eat cheap bacon or whatever it may be.

I am not saying that there are no bonkers activists with bonkers unrealistic ideas, there definitely are, but the main thing is that we shouldn't be making people feel bad or telling them they are virtue signalling for expressing their opinion or for taking a stand.

I'm just saying that this is one of those opinions that acts as a mechanism to flag your principled outlook for the approval of your peers with very little cost to yourself - but with an enormous burden on others.

Personally, I think conspicuous opinion-waving to galvanize your status is a dick move.

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