To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

[FaeryRing]

It seems like there is nothing the state shouldn’t be responsible for any more! Feeding your kids, getting them to school, hiring ‘behaviour specialists’ for every classroom because parents don’t want to discipline their own children, giving you money towards virtually anything you ask for because it’s not fair you have to pay for anything yourself.. I find it absolutely wild and don’t think it’s at all realistic or representative of what most adults believe?

Sadly what happens actually happens to children of really incompetent and neglectful parents is that they get taken into a care system which is already over-loaded and not working well, particularly for teenagers and young adults.

But how are you suggesting we do that?

The milk wasn't great, it was normally warm!

Yeah...until your circumstances are deemed not good.

if it stops children being raised in unimaginable circumstances then I support it.

It wouldn't.

Unless you're willing and ready to sterilise anyone and everyone that has a possible risk factor. People leaving care, people that suffered trauma/abuse in childhood, people with mental health issues, people with SEND , people with a criminal record , people on low wages etc.

Even then you'll have kids suffering abuse in "normal" families and kids living in even worse conditions hidden and under the radar.

Do you people even think before you make some of these wild claims?

That's because the government isn't willing to look at long term plans and what actually works , they just do plasters and sound bites while at the same time cutting all services that have been helping and were working.

All health ,education and social care services have been cut, they are underfunded and understaffed and then we wonder why people are not well(in more way than one)? Gee, I wonder...

I don’t have an ideology as such but I know we can’t continue throwing money at people who are a black hole.

Good grief. You express such disdain for your fellow British people. I have no time for this kind of attitude. You wouldn't dare to say it in so many real life settings, so you are hiding behind your keyboard expressing genuinely awful views. Obviously you have your reasons for being so full of these feelings towards fellow Brits, but it reflects terribly on you.

I’m not making wild claims, I’m having a discussion and trying to suggest some ideas. I’m using words like “if”, I’m not saying what will work.

all I can see is that the current system is not working, and I don’t see how pandering to people and pressuring others to pick up the slack could possible make it any better.

I would and do say this stuff in real life and I don’t give a shit about feeling disdain when I hear things about how children are being raised negligently across the board.

I do say it in real life settings. Many people agree with me. It’s not particularly controversial to not want to squander money on people who have zero intention of contributing to society in any way and actively set out to damage it.

I bet you don't.

You are saying awful things - essentially advocating sterilisation - and you know exactly what you are doing.

You yourself are actively damaging British society by posting what you post.

I am tired of being tolerant of this type of bollocks.

I’m not advocating sterilisation. It’s dystopian and would never happen, it’s unenforceable.

I’m tired of tolerating people who commit crime, make women and children unsafe, hoover up resources with zero payback and intimidate the very people who are helping them.

Well people were very happy to "squander" money on the homeless to house them during the first lockdown. Ditto telling the unemployed they didnt have to attend the Job Centre. Strange how you get the complete opposite scenario when people are scared of catching a deadly disease off of them. And they wernt the ones going on those ski trips.

Then shame on you. And your kind.

Also, things are in place to address that. SS etc. If that isn't working then look at why.... oh I don't know why I'm bothering. It's like bloody Groundhog Day.

yes, we aren’t going to see eye to eye. Because overall you think that if SS is failing it’s only the fault of the govt. I think the infrastructure isn’t working; but that people are ultimately the problem, and not taking responsibility for themselves. Which is the entire point of the thread.

and I don’t find “shame on you” even remotely insulting or moving. It’s just a meaningless trope to try to avoid any sort of discussion about something uncomfortable.

I think it’s more shameful to support and encourage people who shouldn’t be having children to have them, so that millions can live in suffering they don’t deserve and then repeat the same cycles ad infinitum.

Word salad... what are you saying?

@Giraffesandbottoms do you know many people who are functioning, sane, stable ,healthy etc that are on benefits or raising their kids in unimaginable conditions?

Taking responsibility for yourself it's easy when all of the above are working for you. Even then, shit still happens (unexpected illness, trauma, mental breakdowns etc)

Consult a dictionary.

I think you’ve put the problem in a nutshell.

And read some history.

I have several... which would you recommend?

🍪

And multiple history books... I don't even need to wait for the public library to open tomorrow.