If you're a parent would you think this was ridiculous if I pulled you aside after school for this?

[L4815162342]

I work in a school.

A 5/6 year old today trod on a small bug. He did this on purpose.

I'd like to say it was because he didn't know better but this was half an hour after a lesson on looking after the environment and things we could do to care for nature. Lots was mentioned about animals, etc.

I pulled the child up and spoke to him about his behaviour. He essentially received the equivalent of a bad behaviour point as a result.

If you were pulled aside after school as a parent and told about this incident would you think it was ridiculous?

I know people have different views, some would draw the line at hurting an animal the size of a cat, for example, but wouldn't bat an eyelash at killing a spider.

I hope you also counsel about the bacteria you are willingly killing when you encourage 5 year olds to wash their hands and even use hand sanitiser.

I'm sorry I can't bring myself to care about a bug being stepped on. No I don't have empathy for bugs. I also don't see any correlation between bugs and human beings, or other animals with a central nervous system, so I don't count myself a murderer when I eat chicken or fish or whatever.

So while I would listen politely I wouldn't be doing anything about it.

You do truly learn something new everyday! Yay, no more housework 😁 I hope the spiders can forgive my ignorance. I was the epitome of ‘she means well’ while causing mayhem. My home is their home from now on.

If I was the parent I would make a complaint to the school about my child being given a behaviour point for childish ordinary exploratory behaviour

I'd want someone to talk to me about it. Having said that my school seem to swallow lots of behaviour and then discuss general themes rather than specific instances - unless they had hurt themselves or others. Which in general is probably better than having every single concern/issue raised.

My son was a little bit like the child you mention, he has ASD and is contrary in nature and impulsive due to ADHD. He absolutely knows right from wrong but the more you dwell on what you should do - the more inclined he would have been to see what happens if you don't, when he didn't fully understand consequences. He would have been upset with himself when spoken to about it or given time to reflect.

He was the type of child if you praised him for walking nicely - you would be subjected to the Ministry of Silly Walks for the next 5 minutes. Very tedious to raise at that age.

Have you seen a class when a wasp appears,going fom child to child, settling on this one buzzing round that one, stinger at the ready? There are screams, there are children leaping to their feet. Goodbye lesson...
The wasp must die.

It's fair enough to punish him mildly for it. It was showing total disregard for the lesson he had just been taught. It's like doing a lesson about litter, and then seeing a kid dropping all their wrappers in the playground 5 mins later.
Kids are taught about bugs, mini beasts, frogs etc as it gives them a standing point of respecting all animals and knowing they have a purpose. Then they go on to caring for hamsters, then they might get a cat or dog. They need to know hurting living creatures for no reason is cruel.

At the risk of a broad-brush sweeping statement, I do think boys are different. I remember watching in horror as my brothers tortured insects - slugs and spiders and so on. They were fascinated by it. But otherwise appear to be normal human beings, not cruel monsters in daily life.

There’s a lot of hypocrisy on this thread. Animals being killed for food suffer in life and in death. I wonder how many anti bug squashers are vegans.
Seeking out multiple bugs to kill is something I would want to know. Anything else is OTT.

This! Also the minute I see a fly or a wasp in the house it's gone. There's no way I'm having them crawl over my food or sting my children. Bees are an obvious exception.

I remember my DS at 3 doing this. I was shocked. We are an animal loving family. We never kill bugs at home. We remove them outside. But it was his instinct. He didn’t know better. So I calmly explained. He’s now very lovely with all creatures.

Did you ask this lad why he did it? Did you find out where he’d got the idea?

• could be this is the model at home. Lots of adults kill bugs on sight. In which case it just needs a conversation.
• it might have been an instinct like my 3 yr old that he’d never been taught before. In which case it just needs a conversation.
• It might have been fear. In which case it just needs a conversation.
• or it could have been ‘for fun’ or ‘to see what you do’ or testing the boundaries, or defiance against what you’d been telling him. In which case the next question is ‘why?’. What does he need that he’s not getting. He’s 5!

A sanction won’t help him to learn empathy. It will make him hide his behaviour. A good logical consequence would be to make a bug hotel with him at break time, or a joint learning about the bug he killed - bugs are fascinating. That would help him to learn. That would help him develop empathy.

I would be pleased to know, and reinforce compassion and kindness at home. Absolutely. Respect for all living things has to start young.

I must say I would also be embarrassed as a parent. I would be sad to think my child hadn’t already learnt how precious our ecosystem and wild life is, after 5/6 years of being raised to care for insects and animals.

I am a very empathic person. I am in a caring role. I am vegetarian and try to care for our natural world as best I can. I am a woman. Now to the confession….

I remember, as a child, sitting on the doorstep pulling legs off crane flies. Just because…

I think you are right that this is just kids. It’s not nice but our frontal cortex (the breaks and checks and balances, on our more animal instincts), develops slowly and doesn’t complete that development until our early 20s. Our brains are animalistic at their core.

There are huge huge swathes of grown adults that haven’t learned this yet!!

You are right OP and I would have also talked to the child. To do this straight after a long chat about animals is not nice. I do have small kids btw, and they get outraged when I attempt to kill a fly!

Including hens that are reared for cheap chicken?

I'd think you were a bit bonkers Tbh

I would want to know but I am one of the people who avoids killing/suffering of any animal anything if I possibly can. Am vegetarian, don't use leather, don't use anything in the garden that is poisonous. Rescue spiders, worms from paths, snails that might be trodden on.

Yes- definitely.

I have been a vegan for 35 years so I don’t eat chicken or use any by product of any living animal.

My children are vegetarian

I think you were right to pull the child up on in (and as a pp said, it would be good to try to find out why he did it).

Telling the parent is OTT I think unless it seems part of a wider pattern of cruel or unthinking behaviour.

If I were the parent and you told me I’d be sad my child had done that but also think it’s a little out of proportion telling me, it’s a minor thing, you’ve dealt with it, no need for me to know too. But I guess it depends how much you report to parents generally - ie if you are the sort of teacher who gives lots of detail every day to parents then this wouldn’t be out of proportion.

Ridiculous.

Very true a lot of children (sadly!) live in big squashing homes

How shallow