Going On Holiday When Signed Off Sick

[Tickytocky]

AIBU to book a holiday when signed off sick from work ?

Huge backstory, but basically off sick with work related stress. Doctors note in place for 4 weeks. Desperately need a change of scene and some sunshine. Haven’t been off work for nearly 7 years. Haven’t had a holiday in 9 years not that that’s relevant (feels very relevant).

Would this be unreasonable of me ?

I write HR policies for a massive public sector organisation. I promise you what you are saying isn’t right.

if you are unavailable as per the terms of the sick pay policy, you can be required to take that time off as annual leave.

There are plenty of bone idle employees who don't want to step up to the plate when a bit of extra effort is required. No one is "forced" to go off sick because they have to work a bit harder.

Inevitably when they go off sick with "stress" they add to the workload of their more conscientious colleagues who keep working and take annual leave when they need a break.

Anyone can get stressed and need a break sometimes. That is what annual leave is for.

I'm disappointed at the number of people on here encouraging the OP to deceive her employer and colleagues.

That is gross misconduct if in so doing she is in breach of her employer's sickness absence policy. She certainly would be if she was employed by the large public sector organisation I work for. If she is found out she could be sacked and rightly so.

By all means OP should take a holiday if she thinks it will improve her wellbeing, but she should do it honestly. She obviously knows it's wrong to go without consulting her manager or HR, otherwise she would not have come on here seeking validation for her decision.

The knowledge that she might face disciplinary action and dismissal on her return will surely affect her enjoyment and any benefits she might get from the holiday.

Do the right thing OP. Book annual leave so you can enjoy your holiday fully.

That is a dreadful policy.What isf it is the behaviour of the manager that has contributed to the person's mental health difficulties. A policy that is only going to make someone feel worse.and take longer to recover

Haven’t been off work for nearly 7 years

Are you in the uk? There are legal requirements for minimum amounts of annual leave.

People may think it is odd, because if you are very stressed/overworked due to not being off in 7 years, and a holiday will help.... it begs the question why you didn't use your annual leave to go on holiday

That's an interesting assertion, that things like stress and burnout are just the same as the pressure felt if one has to step up and work a bit harder. I wonder how many medical professionals concur.

The 'if' in 'if in so doing she is in breach of her employer's sickness absence policy' is doing a LOT of heavy lifting for you.

You sound very bitter.

Me too. I’m not sure permission is the right word but it’s reasonable for your employer to expect to be made aware of any dates you will be out of the country.

Inadequate government funding is the reason we don’t have floating nurses and doctors waiting to cover. The manager is largely powerless.

If she takes your advice, she might not have any choice.

I think it's poor taste. Out of interest, why haven't you had a holiday for 7 long years. Bit odd that you decided to fly into the sun the moment you are signed off with stress.

Do you think it's only those who get signed off for stress that suffer from it or do you think there are people who work despite their stress and fatigue?

I suspect that there are people who work and continue to function in their roles despite stress, and if that's the case I can understand bitterness towards those who get stressed and go on holiday to recuperate.

Your second point is what happened when dh was off sick. They changed it to sick leave and it meant he could use his annual leave at a later date. The holiday had been booked a year in advance before he went off sick so we were going wether work liked it or not!

As a PP said - I’f you’re signed off for a broken leg, then go skiing etc that would be an obvious breach of your sick note. But signed off for stress and doing something to alleviate that stress would be ok. However your colleagues (or employer) would probably not see it that way

It's not a "fault". Why does there have to be someone to blame?

If you are a team of 5 + manager, for instance, you may be geared up to just cope with someone on holiday and another off sick for a week, or something like that.

Add another person off sick into the mix and you're likely screwed, regardless of contingencies of deprioritising work, manager picking up extra load, etc.

With the best will in the world there is a limit to how much absence can be covered. You can't run a business - or other organisation - permanently over-staffed on the off chance 60% of the team will be off.

The manager cannot just magic up more manpower and there may well be a critical service that needs to be provided to customers with the risk of losing customers with a knock on of job losses if some slack isn't picked up by means of extra workload on other team members; the manager cannot cover every bit of extra workload them self.

I expect the magicking up of more manpower from nowhere is exactly what MN will think should happen, of course.

I think it's fine to go especially if you're off with work related stress. But I agree with others that I'd keep it quiet and ideally I'd let your work know so you're keeping it all above board and then noone can accuse you of being underhanded.

Plenty of people who can't walk still manage to go on holiday

It’s down to whatever the employer’s OSP policy says of course.

But I think another consideration not to be minimised is: when the stress of a job is enough to see a person get signed off sick, is that person really resilient and thick skinned enough to return to that workplace with its stress PLUS all the stress and insecurity of wondering what people are saying or thinking about them taking holiday while off sick?

I wouldn’t want to put myself in that position, and rightly or wrongly I’m afraid I’d have a pretty dim view of someone using sick leave to go on holiday. I say that as someone who’s been signed off with work stress and bullying before so it’s not like I’m insensitive to it.

Why haven't you taken any annual leave in 7 years? That's what annual leave is for

If your off on a long term basis then I think it's fine to go on holiday, but I would let your employer know. If its a few weeks then I think it's a bit off to go on holiday in that time

While a break may make you temporarily feel better it doesn't actually deal with stress or burnout in the long run.

Like realistically if you just need a holiday you need to take annual leave, last minute if your boss will allow, not be off sick

If your off sick long term the life needs to continue and part of that would be holidays. If you had the holiday booked already, fine, but to get signed off work for a few weeks and chose to then book a holiday when you haven't done that for 9 years is a bit off

OP has not returned, so we have no idea if no holiday means none away from home, as opposed to no time off work.

If you leave the country without knowledge, no way easily of your employer contacting you, if only to check that you will return to work after four weeks.

I know it can be ok to do and can be good to do but I wouldn't do it especially if I left colleagues picking up my slack.

In that case, I wish I'd have taken time off work when I was made homeless by my ex-husband (he changed the locks to the marital home after I left for my own safety). But no of course I didn't - I'm a teacher! Just carried on. In fact, most people at work never knew.

I don’t get the point of your post here, it’s not the same thing and it comes across as you saying you’ve been through worse so people should just suck it up.

Being a teacher doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to stop. I don’t know why this is an ‘of course you didn’t’ situation. Why wouldn’t you?

I worked as a supply teacher for many years. Always long term positions. My first supply job was due to the post holder being off sick with stress due to a similar situation to yours. I was there for 8 months initially, and then for the whole of the next year.

What I saw in teaching - poor senior management, teachers driving themselves to burnout, bullying, presenteeism with the most horrible illnesses, and 6th form admin teams playing HR badly, is why I went into HR. I decided to leave teaching the day the school I was working at wanted me to provide lesson plans for the classes I was covering as a supply teacher - I was actually in hospital, with a very serious condition and the nurse took my phone off me and told them no I wouldn’t be doing that.

Half an hour later while I was in the queue for my MRI ‘of course’ I sent cover over. And no one thanked me because they seriously expected me to send cover over while I was being checked to see if I was having a stroke. Beggars belief that I bought into it too. I got seriously seriously ill twice while I was teaching and I know the expectation that ‘of course’ I would be in made it worse. Of course you should have taken time off. You would have been given 5 paid days initially where I work. Likely more.

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging Well I'll agree with you on one thing (not that I think anybody cares), so many teachers I know are so unwell with mental health at the moment it is awful. They've literally got to breaking point. The recruitment and retention crisis doesn't help, but the budget cuts are mostly to blame.
I remember distinctly going in whilst I was miscarying and bleeding so heavily I almost collapsed. Had to wait until break to go to the toilet because I was on my own. By the time I made it my clothes were saturated through but I always keep a spare set of knickers and leggings in the cupboard for when I'm on my period as can go for hours without being able to use the bathroom.
But I guess I'm of the "Keep calm and carry on" camp. Probably doesn't do me any favours but I would feel so horrifically guilty taking any time off.

it’s been that way since I was a trainee. A long time. Teachers have some of the highest sickness absence I’ve seen, mainly stress, but also the worst for showing up when they should be at home in bed. Which is exactly why I ended up in hospital, and was on the cusp of hospital again the following year with something else. The illnesses are outing but let’s just say I literally nearly worked myself to death twice. I left teaching at the end of the year after the second illness. Very glad I did. I have learned that if you feel guilty for prioritising your health over work then you are not the problem.

I had 4 miscarriages after leaving teaching, and my first miscarriage was similar to your experience, I spent 24 hours in hospital due to blood loss (which is ironic now we know I have a clotting disorder!). We have said more than once that the one thing that could have possibly made the situation worse is if I was still teaching. X

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging I'm so sorry you experienced similar - is your work OK now?
20 years in for me and I'm done. Off to uni from September to do a Masters.