Muslim families with pre-teen girls

[Laffydaffy]

DD has a friend who is half European and half Syrian. Friend's mum converted to Islam before marriage. Initially, it was not obvious they were practicing Muslims. No talking about it, no hijab, liberal (alcohol in house), among other things, until recently. Recently, the pre-teen friend fasted with her family for Ramadan, mum has just started wearing a hijab in the last fortnight and dad has forbidden friend to visit anyone's house without mum accompanying for the whole visit.

My question is, if the family is becoming more devout, about which I have no problem with, how common is it for 11 year old girls to need constant supervision when not at home or at school?

I don't want an argument. I wanted an opinion from people who have a similar background, because I have little experience. Nor is this a Muslim-bashing thread. Far-out, people, one cannot have a reasonable discussion about concerns without being troll-hunted.

And in my opinion, if there is anti-muslim sentiment in society at the moment, it makes sense that Muslim families become more insular or, in another way, to protect themselves. Same as Christians, or I would imagine it to be so.

For those who said it may have something to do with males in other/my household, thank-you. It could be that.

Mumsnet have very high standards for how women and children should be treated. I don't see why religion should change that.

It might be her age as a PP said. I lived in an area with a big Muslim population and Ramadan was far more widely observed than Lent (which I guess would be the closest Christian equivalent). It may be that now she’s old enough to join in. There is a big charity and community element to Ramadan too and it culminates with Eid - lots of food, family & friends and fireworks if my neighbours were anything to go by! Bit like Christmas as a comparable for scale and importance.

The chaperoning may also be down to age. I think the transition from girlhood to womanhood begins around the same time as puberty starts and some changes in behaviour might be expected.

No offence meant by comparing religions ❤️

i am Muslim. We have friends who are Kurdish, Iranian, Afghan, Pakistani. And I should assure you that this is misogyny pure and simple. Not Islam. As suspected if this is coming from him then this raises a tonne of red flags and I would let the school know. Is the mum able to speak with you freely?

Ask them to explain why the dad is insisting on this . It may be more cultural than religious. Only he can explain his reasons

The mum is very open about it and doesn't seem to have a problem discussing what her DH wants.

I just wanted to understand the ban on visiting, because really, I don't want a mum-chat for 3 hours with someone I don't know well. Seems a bit selfish of me, so maybe will do it this way. A chaperoned visit.

Report what exactly?

@AboutYouTalk The sudden change in behaviour as school staff are used to doing for all manner of reasons.

It's a non-issue in a school to report such things, if it's nothing and doesn't add to a picture of other potentially abusive and/or isolating behaviours then great nothing will come of it and it will just be a concern on their safeguarding software that only the pastoral team can see. If the behaviour continues to change, her demeanor changes, large amounts of school missed, extended holidays abroad or anything else school staff are taught to look out for then it forms part of the wider picture.

No, this isn’t a Muslim thing. It’s a controlling parent thing.

Being pro-Palestine isn’t a red flag.

HTH.

Exerting that kind of control over a child without justification based on individual child behavior would concern me. I would continue to allow visits in your home, but stop your child from visiting theirs.

Hopefully there will be someone else better qualified to discuss this than me, as this is from the little I've picked up working with refugee families - its possible the need/want for her to be chaperoned is more related to her being Syrian, rather than Muslim per se? Is it Dad who is Syrian?
From what I picked up from the families I've known it was common for girls to be chaperoned from around the time of puberty. I don't think it was considered safe for teenage girls or women to be out on their own in many parts of Syria. I wonder whether that's become a cultural expectation for dad, or within his family, eg if they have family in Syria?

“Their” prophet? You do know that Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Noah, Moses and more are also “their” prophets? This is also a lie not fact trotted out by Islamophobes.

Its bearing btw.

Could be to do with the Syrian culture. Don't really know the family well. I tend to keep my distance between my kid's friends and their families, because at this age, the kids are the ones with the friendships.

Anyway, thanks to those who contributed nicely and evenly. Constructive feedback was helpful.

It sounds like borderline child abuse to me. Why should dad's personal belief stop his daughter from living a normal life?

Is it, though? My DD can visit her friend most days if she was allowed to, so it is not that exclusionary.

Also, I did wonder about a link with begining of fasting for Ramadan and the starting of puberty.

One of my granddaughters friends is Turkish and she from the age of 11 hasn't been able to visit my daughters house as my grandson had turned 10. Before that she was allowed to have play dates which were resiplicated.
Has never been able to have a sleepover or granddaughter stay over at her house.
I'll be honest I don't know what religion the family are. As they drink alcohol, no one wears a head covering.
Perhaps it's just an over protected father.

We don't let DD sleep over anywhere due a history of CSA.

When my DD was in primary school 2009-2015, her Muslim female friends were not allowed to visit. This was about 7 girls out of the class, they all had the same rule, different parents. My daughter was allowed in their house, only if I stayed too. My son, five years younger, was friends with some of their brothers. The boys were free to visit.

I have Christian friends whose teens aren't allowed to go out without a family member chaperoning. Its not that unusual in many cultures, and sometimes when people are living somewhere that they are in a minority they'll become more protective/conservative as parents. It can be abusive, but isn't necessarily so - parents can be strict if they wish to be.

The OP apologised for the way she included Palestine in that paragraph. What's there to report? Can't adults have a mature conversation that involves the name of a country in a war?

@Laffydaffy

I am muslim (not strict) and married into strict muslim family and have lots of muslim friends from different ethnicity. It is quite normal for 11 year olds not being allowed to go sleepovers and friends' house alone. Events like birthday parties etc. The extent of restriction does depend on how well they know the friend, trust in their own daughter, the family, area etc. I do not want to get into whether it is right or wrong or fair or unfair etc - there are plenty of atheists, christians and other faiths who do not allow 11 year olds unchaperoned visits etc….but to answer if it is typical…yeah it is very typical in a muslim family if they are mildly practicing. As for the sudden devoutness - this does also happen…in fact often moms start wearing hijab to role model for their pre teens. I would not find what you have said alarming and would only feel there is safeguarding concerns if other signs are present. Being chaperoned at 11 and sudden devoutness are not really significant even if on the side of controlling…one might argue that 11 year olds are meant to be controlled in regards to where they can go and not go.

Kindly @Laffydaffy your say your dd isn't allowed sleep overs because of history of CSA. So why are you surprised that others might want to chaperone their children for possibly similar reasons.. CSA doesn't just happen at night.

I'm sorry your family has been through that. But surely you must understand then, why some parents are more protective of their kids?

Did her friend visit alone prior to this? It could be any number of reasons, such as the reason you’ve given yourself for your DD not being allowed to attend sleepovers. It could just be a totally unrelated reason which many parents have no matter what their religion. The girl fasting is likely due to her age and puberty as others have pointed out. There’s also nothing wrong with her mum wearing a scarf. I really don’t see why you’re concerned about anything you’ve mentioned in your op.