To find that going to the doctors doesn't resolve the issue

[Mairzydotes]

I've recently had an appointment and it's got me thinking that I always feel fobbed off ( I feel a bit fobbed off with this one too)and they never solve the issue.

Once I had been referred for a scan , and when I spoke to a clinician for a follow up, I was told the nurse who referred me was working their notice and was referring everyone , and they wouldn't be doing anything further.

The only time I've ever felt like my issues have been taken seriously, and dealt with was in pregnancy, when my pre-eclampsia showed up in my ante- natal check up.

Some people make appointments and it seems like the health care professionals bend over backwards to help them and I feel dismissed. And these are about physical things , that can be seen . I dread to think what mental health would be like.

Does anyone else find this happens to them?

I need to be more forceful. Although sometimes I don't particularly know what the next steps should be

It's interesting what you said about living in proximity to major hospitals.

I live within about 15 miles of the major hospitals in Newcastle, and even closer to the hospitals in South Northumberland.

I could imagine them being reluctant to refer people who live remotely, thinking there is no point because it will be too difficult for them to get to their appointment.

I understand all the targets and budgets that gps have to adhere to .

They are reluctant to give out prescriptions due to the costs involved, but they don't explain if a patient can buy their treatment, or what they need.

@FeralNun I know women sharing their individual stories is anecdotal, very true, but we have a whole heap of science on this, too.

Women are simply not believed by doctors. Not male doctors, not female doctors. Numerous studies have looked at this from all kinds of different angles: women with chest pain are more likely to be told it’s anxiety, women with auto-immune disorders are more likely to be brushed off with, “Oh, it’s just depression,” and just a single study looking at women who went to A&E with severe stomach pain found they waited 33% longer than men who had the EXACT same symptoms.

@Mairzydotes But what’s most relevant to your case, perhaps, is that women experience tremendous diagnostic delays in comparison to men, across all diseases. In fact, with over 770 diseases, the average delay for women is four years later for diagnosis than men. For cancer, which could be life or death, women are on average diagnosed 2.5 years later than men. It’s not just you, it’s not just anyone on this thread, it’s not in anyone’s head, and it is absolutely terrible. According to doctors in the first article I attached, it’s getting “better,” but not quickly enough.

SOURCES:
https://www.northwell.edu/katz-institute-for-womens-health/articles/gaslighting-in-womens-health
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190311103059.htm

Yes, almost every time I see a medical professional I have a lingering feeling of shame for the rest of the day from being patronised. (I'm autistic so very sensitive). They've never really helped me with any of my health issues so I just have a growing list of chronic problems now.

Thanks for sharing this. It's affirming yet depressing. I just don't know how to stand up to it. I accompanied my partner to the doctor once last year to support him and seeing the response from the doctor was very eye-opening! It was all taken VERY seriously even though it ended up being fine, luckily.

That’s exactly what happened to my mum. She presented with textbook Parkinson’s symptoms and was told it was stress. My dad went to the same GP because he was concerned about some of his symptoms and was referred straight away for further tests. Dad was fine but mum wasn’t. It’s absolutely sickening how women are fobbed off by the NHS.

I felt like this. After a few months of back and forth and all tests being negative my GP decided I probably have CFS or fibromyalgia, it felt like I was being
fobbed off.
My GP said she was going to do one last blood test. Had it on Friday, Dr called Tuesday to say a couple of tests were positive. Referred me to rheumatology who contacted the GP today. This afternoon I had more blood tests and some x rays. Am shocked that things can actually move so quickly!

Personally I think we should have gender based medicine. I think women have completely different needs, symptoms, react differently to drugs (some far more harmful to women than men dished out!) and often illnesses men simply don't. I want to be seen by someone who has actively chosen to work for women because I strongly suspect they would put me in for tests I needed and see me as a whole person and remember why my body/MH and age related needs are different from the textbooks and possibly the wonky guidelines. I strongly suspect the anemia rates in this country are far higher than recorded because the bar is set so low here compared to other countries and Big Pharma get the benefit of so many women being falsely diagnosed with anxiety and depression because of it. That in turn has a knock on effect on her healthcare as we have discussed.

We need proper change on this.

The problem is some things are tricky to diagnose

It took 3 years and fortnightly trips to a and e for morphine for my sister to be diagnosed with gallstones by which point she was in sepsis and critically ill. Gallstones in a 15 yo was highly unusual

My husband has been to the doctors repeatedly for joint pain. It took a new system at our surgery which meant he saw a physio instead of a GP for a referral to a specialist. They think he likely has an autoimmune or inflammatory disease but until they catch a flare up in the act try can't say what. He's now having semi regular scans and bloods. The problem is he books them when having a problem but 3 months later when the scan date comes through it is no longer flared up.

My mum has been under the drs for reflux for 15 years. It started when she was working as nurse with a back injury as she was threatened with disciplinary action for taking time off sick. Back injury caused by the job. The lack of food and drink whilst on shift and long term pain killers use destroyed her stomach. She can't take most of the medical treatments due to memory and dizziness side effects. She tried to put up with them but then ended up falling down a flight of stairs and fracturing her back. The specialist ran out of options so she ended up under two specialists at 2 hospitals and the GP managing it in between. No one knows what is going on and if she's on the meds her memory is too poor to relay the facts between the different dr's

The body is complicated, the body is weird. Treatments don't always work. GPs are great but also varied in knowledge and expertise and the barriers to referrals terribly high. My daughter has been under paeds since 5 months. We fought for earlier referrals but all rejected due to her being a normal weight. We only got in as she saw a paediatrician for something else and he agreed she needed paediatrician support for her reflux. At 3 he reached his limit and she is now under 2 paediatricians for her reflux. Some times it takes time for something to go from normally not right to problem not right. We have definitely seen this with my daughter reflux and the attitudes too it as she has grown and not outgrown it like the other 99% of 3yos.

Document everything, write out your history before you go so you get the chronology right in your head for the 40th time before you go. If you can take another pair of ears or an advocate. I have to advocate for my daughters needs every time we see a paediatrician that she might look bright at that moment but she might have been up 10 times the night before screaming in pain.

Definitely agree. I have a few things I’d ideally like to speak to my dr about but I honestly think it’s utterly pointless 🙄

Not down to your GP I'm afraid. The system is now so full if Pathways and referral guidelines our hands are completely tied. Even if we try to refer to what we think is the right place isn't either gets refused or redirected.
I see from this thread the government spin has nicely made GPs the scapegoats for the lack of funding a decent NHS.
I for one GP (and almost all I know) are pretty much done. The system that will be left will not be one worth anything.

Devils advocate from everyone else shitting on GPs.
Their job is to discern between the serious and the trivial, what medical science can help with and what it cannot.

If they see 1000 people with a stomach ache and reassure most of them that it is not serious, there is a possibility that one of these judgements is wrong. However they could not possibly have sent all 1000 people for a gastroscopy, nearly all of them would be a waste of resources the NHS could not cope. But every patient believes they should be the one investigated without more of an indication. Humans can only do their best - they are not expected to be 100% accurate.

If you feel ‘fobbed’ off it’s worth asking why. Did you go in with really vague symptoms or a clear description? Did you go in with something clearly not serious?
Has the GP been able to rule out what you were concerned about?
What were you expecting them to do?

Also worth noting that even with the medical knowledge we have now - not every problem can be ‘solved’, some you do just have to live with.

I just want to say how sorry I am. I had hoped seeing the facts would be affirming for many who had these experiences (I’ve had a few before, but I’ve been lucky that my excellent doctors have far outweighed those who were biased or incompetent). Unfortunately, I feel the same.

I don’t know how you change the current culture in doctors who are in the middle of their careers. I don’t know if you’ve read the article by Merope Mills about medical mismanagement that led to her daughter Martha’s death (the driver for the new Martha’s rule), but the fate of the doctors afterwards was just awful (of the two who had truly made such bad judgment calls on the day Martha died that there’s no way to say they didn’t directly contribute to her death AND that’s what an investigation found, one was posting a photo from a vacation destination a few days after her death and the other was promoted quite soon).

Maybe there is hope if examining one’s own biases, being conscientious, and not acting on them, is taught more to medical students so that this, as well as the racial bias that still exists in medicine and causes poorer outcomes based on race and ethnicity, could be removed within a generation of doctors. But I have no idea if medical schools have centered any part of their curriculum on trying to fix that.

I was diagnosed with a chronic illness that causes chronic pain 5 years ago, it's such a pain getting pain killers prescribed and then having the repeats done properly with enough sent. I've just recently been prescribed cocodamol and the first lot I was sent was enough to last a month, when that was starting to run out I put a request in for more (I get them delivered so always leave time for them to arrive), I got sent 30. I take up to 8 a day (but usually 6 as I have a 4 hour nap during the day), 30 would only last me a few days. It's so frustrating. So now I'm waiting for another repeat prescription which is taking longer than normal and I'm expecting the request to be denied because it hasn't been long since my last request.

I was on codydramol, but when I switched doctors they took it off and told me to just take otc paracetamol instead, when I had already tried that before hence the codydramol prescription. Then I was taken off naproxen and that was replaced with amitriptyline which doesn't work nearly as well as naproxen does. I only arranged that appointment to get something else to take alongside naproxen, not to have it swapped for something else.

Why is it so hard for chronic pain to be taken seriously? I can't function when I'm in pain as it is literally agonising.

It's shit but I've found only one thing works.

I was fobbed off for years. Struggled to even make it past the condescending receptionist then was always treated as 'anxious' by the condescending doctor.

DH had enough one day, called for my appointment. It was amazing, snobby receptionist suddenly bent over backwards and I got in the same day.

GP was raptly listening to my symptoms while glancing at DH and quickly referred me on to a specialist (surprise, I did in fact have a chronic condition and permanent damage due to them ignoring me).

DH now calls the receptionist for my appointments. And he comes along for me to any appointment, gp or hospital.

I'm furious about it, but it genuinely works for any/all receptionists and doctors so fuck it.

Interesting thread and I often wonder whether, if I had anything really serious (heaven forbid) I’d stand any chance of our GP picking it up at all.

I really try to avoid seeing the doctor and tbh rarely go but a few years ago I had an issue with something that sent me to our local urgent care centre as it was a bit worrying (it was over a weekend, GP closed). To cut a long story short, I was roundly scoffed at by a nurse-practitioner who said it was my age, she got the same thing, go away but see my GP if I was really worried. I did and the GP professed herself mystified, prescribed something that tbh didn’t help much, and it gradually kind-of eased off, but since then has never really gone back to normal.

Cut to today and I’ve recently been diagnosed (privately) with a condition that isn’t life-threatening but is something you don’t really want to have. If the GP (and the angry nurse) had actually taken me seriously they might have spotted it in the early stages and I could have had treatment that would have helped a lot.

That said, I had an actual same-day GP appointment recently - only the second since we’ve been with this surgery in over 20 years - and the (young, female locum) GP was phenomenally thorough and I felt completely 'heard'. So maybe it’s just down to luck, unfortunately.

IME unless you're willing to be stroppy and kick off you'll get absolutely nothing from the NHS.

People who are not very assertive and won't advocate for themselves get ignored.

Don’t worry, primary care won’t exist in five years I reckon. Certainly not in its current guise.

I work in it. It’s fucked. You’ll miss us when we’re gone.

Will I? Every time I've had a serious issue in recent years I've had to go to A&E to get it sorted out anyway.

This is literally me. I’ve taken my son for help over many years and it was a local who finally agreed that he needed a hospital referral.

Terrifying and unacceptable.

Yep.
I was told by the GP to "hit the gym a bit more" to increase my energy levels.

And of course, it turned out it was actually a serious disease for which I'm still on medication six years later.

@Sidge I'm sorry, this must be an awful thread to read when you're in it, and doing your best. It's very clearly the system and not the people.
Do you feel like it's just being run into the ground?

Well GPs aren’t there for emergencies anyway, so if you had a serious or emergency issue ED is the right place.

My prediction - rubs crystal ball - is that you’ll have urgent care centres staffed by PAs and ANPs for minor illness. You’ll need private healthcare for any secondary care referrals, ongoing issues or chronic health concerns.

I think health centres will exist to access routine care such as vaccinations, smears, BP monitoring etc and these will be staffed mainly by nurses.

I don’t think GPs as we know them now will exist. The absolute basics will be offered to those unable to pay under a sort of Medicare scheme.

Just my musings, obviously.

My issues weren't serious to start out with, they became that way because they'd been ignored by GPs.

Like the UTI that spread to my kidneys for instance.

I'm currently pregnant with hyperemesis and even trying to get the GP to prescribe anti sickness has been a battle that luckily I'm capable of fighting. Plenty of other women don't know what they're entitled to, accept being told oh it's just morning sickness, and then end up in hospital on a drip.