DH ‘banter’ with woman we know

[GettingOnMyTits]

Just after some advice on a situation which might sound like a bit of a non-situation, but is causing me some annoyance.

My DH does a hobby that involves a lot of weekends away, I enjoy going along, so it’s become a bit of a family hobby and we have met a network of friends through it.
There’s a couple a similar age to us - the guy does the hobby and his GF often comes along. Increasingly my DH and this GF have been ‘bantering’ a lot in a way that looks to me like high school flirting - constant joke insults to each other etc. They were doing it a lot at a recent event, and now in the comments of a social media post. I’m starting to feel a bit annoyed by it. We rarely see them and don’t live nearby - I don’t think they’re about to embark on a steamy affair or anything, I just don’t want to feel (or look to others) disrespected. I never do similar with her partner, we have a laugh in the group in general but nothing like slinging joke insults at each other. We’re all late 30’s, for context - it’s all a bit silly.

My DH is very anti-cheating and I’m sure won’t view this as flirting, I think he would be horrified if someone actually came on to him. However, I feel he sometimes lacks respect for me in his actions, and is very defensive and dismissive when I bring up feelings that include any criticism of him, real or perceived. We haven’t been in a great place recently. So I’m hesitant to bring it up with him. As for the woman, I do like her apart from this and we do get on - but I can’t say I 100%, unreservedly like and trust her - she’s given me more than a few backhanded compliments and has been quite patronising to me on occasion - out of earshot of others. She’s very much a ‘one of the boys’ type, and from comments she’s made I get the impression she’s insecure in some ways.

What’s annoying is this hobby has a big yearly event in a hot country that they all went along to last year and stayed together in a villa, it’s in term time so I didn’t go as DS had started school, we’ve moved to a new area away from family this year so although I could possibly go along, with lots of family favours called in to come over to pick up DS from school and look after him all weekend, I’m not sure I can be arsed. It would mean me spending a few hundred quid on flights and relying on (his) family goodwill, plus potentially unsettling DS when he’s just moved up a class. However the idea of DH and this woman’s ‘banter’ going on all weekend with her in a bikini, and me stuck at home with DS, is making me feel pretty icky.

Many years ago I struggled with bad jealousy in my early relationships, now after healing trauma, building self confidence and DH being generally trustworthy I feel I’m well past that, so it’s horrible to feel that old familiar sinking feeling in my chest about this.

So, I’m asking for opinions. Please be kind!

YABU - verbal banter doesn’t cross any lines, you’d be controlling by bringing it up. Just concentrate on doing things that improve your own self confidence and let them get on with it. If it does get too much, her partner will soon notice.

YANBU - if it makes you feel uncomfortable, it’s not ‘nothing’ and it’s right to bring it up with DH, you shouldn’t have to hide how you feel about their actions. Best nip it in the bud before it potentially causes embarrassment.

I wasn’t going to give specifics because it would be easily identifiable, but I suppose the whole post already is if she happened to be reading it.
It’s just really puerile stuff like swearing at each other, sticking their middle fingers up at each other when they see each other. The thing that pissed me off most this weekend was her giving my 5yo DS a joker card from a card deck and saying, can you show this to your daddy because it’s him, then said oh it’s not really, he’s cute really - and then blustered ‘Not like that’ because that was sounding like she’d overstepped.
The whole constant insults thing is my DH’s usual MO, with male friends - he’s really sounding like a treat isn’t he 😂 not sure on her DP’s reaction, he’s quite reserved and thinking about it, it happens less in his presence.

I did bring it up this evening because he brought her up when we were talking. He was talking about someone thinking he was a dick and I jokingly agreed, and he said ‘well (this woman) thinks I’m nice’ and I couldn’t not react to that. I just said There is a limit, and outlined how I’d been trying not to be bothered about it over the weekend, with the cute comment etc, so seeing this public post felt like a punch in the gut etc, and then that comment - wtf. As expected he denied, minimised and said I was just being jealous, but was more subdued than his usual reaction to being criticised. He’s been near silent all evening but I can tell he is thinking about it.

I feel rubbish, as PP’s have said this is the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger issue - I do wish I got more affection and respect from him, and should probably be tailing around after him doing this hobby less than I do. I think I’ve kidded myself it’s a fun family activity, but I go along just to avoid feeling like I’m left at home with the baby.

I've experienced this from a 'friend'. I found it very disrespectful and irritating. I explained to my DH how I felt and he was careful about future interactions. To be honest she did and always does start it but I think he enjoys it

I feel he sometimes lacks respect for me in his actions, and is very defensive and dismissive when I bring up feelings that include any criticism of him, real or perceived.

I do wish I got more affection and respect from him.

Lack of respect indeed! You are not overreacting, @GettingOnMyTits. This sounds like a mutual crush and they’re acting on it in plain sight, under the guise of banter.

Their constant jokey insults/ripostes is indeed flirting. They clearly share an attraction and validation, and their frisson is evident in the SM photo and comments. Your H is hooked on the flattery of OW’s attention, so she is receiving his affection. I’m not surprised that she is smugly patronizing to you or that your marriage has been in a rough patch lately.

It is telling that she involved your son in her flirty game, and let her ‘Your dad is cute’ spill out in front of everyone. Likewise, she is on H’s mind, hence his mentionitis that she thinks he’s nice. Their thirsty in-person behavior has now expanded to SM. Do you know if they’re messaging?

Kudos for calling out their inappropriate behavior, which is hugely disrespectful to you and her H. Your entitled, self-serving H is going full steam down a slippery slope. His manipulative blame-shifting and devaluation of your feelings are contemptuous and should not be tolerated. In my marriage, my H would be on very thin ice, and there would be serious consequences if he didn’t shut this down immediately.

Keep posting for support, @GettingOnMyTits.

On here if it makes you feel uncomfortable the man is always wrong, it can never be something about you. That’s the way it works,

you say she’s insecure, but you sound very insecure and jealous to me. What is it you want to say to him, do not have banter any more? You need to speak to her only in this tone? Or you can’t go on your trip as I’m jealous?

This

Give your DH a chance to reflect on things and see what happens. Men do think differently and I do wonder if they aren’t very good at dealing with situations so go for the easy life. But you have flagged it now so he needs to address it. I really do feel for you and know exactly what you are going through. I hope things improve.

It's good that you brought up how it makes you feel and that he seems to be reflecting on it. It's very easy to get carried away with fun banter and the fact that it's done openly with you and her DP there probably made it feel like it was nothing but platonic fun from your DHs perspective. I don't think that just because he's a man and she's a woman it has to be anything suspicious but the main thing is how it makes you feel and from your text it's clear you are feeling very annoyed by her, calling her insecure and so forth.

What would you like your husband to do in an ideal world? Do you want to have a say in who he communicates with and in what way? It sounds like he is following the same communication pattern as he normally has with his friends so I don't know if it's fair to ask him to change that for this particular friend. It's also an indication that he does just see her as a friend and isn't flirting with her.

Oh give over. People (women) know their own relationships. There’s a difference between ‘I do t like you joking around with people’ and that knowing feeling that the tone of this particular friendship is definitely crossing an emotional line. I never cared who my ex spoke to and seemed to have more female friends than male (his workplace is very female dominated). In nearly 15 years there was only one female friendship that had me feeling like the op did, it simply felt off and I did speak to him about it. Respect goes both ways and if the op was behaving like this with the man of this couple then her husband would be equally right to be unsettled by it.

I think you need to keep talking and talking about this stuff but mainly about how you feel like you're fitting yourself around him and how you can work together to change that. He may not be on board but actually he HAS to be.

If you can get through these difficult conversations then your marriage will be strengthened. If you can't then you end up feeling full of suppressed resentment until one day it all explodes in a rush and the marriage is over then anyway.

You say this like a relationship is a fight between men/women. No. It needs working on together. That means each party needs to listen to how the other feels. It is the case though that women are conditioned to assume their feelings are less important than men's and women pointing that out is what you're interpreting as 'always the man's fault on here'.

Can I ask you something, OP - if you didnt have your children together, if he was just a boyfriend - would you be staying with him?
I'm asking because you sound like you've got a very good measure of him (he sounds like a bit of a dick, tbh) and sometimes we think how we feel is 'loving' someone and have an instinct to fight for them when it's more like... muscle memory.
And if you sit down and think about it, you realise you love a person who only existed during the start of the relationship, or someone who exists sporadically before reverting to their their true self (that is not actually someone who you would fall in love with, if you met them now)
Does any of that ring true?
You sound so decent, and self aware, and also like you are working towards this being a final straw.

'My DH is very anti-cheating '

I've always found the ones most vocal about anti cheating are the ones most likely to cheat.

Tell him straight that he's embarrassing you but more so he is embarrassing himself by the way he is carrying on with the immature talk with this woman.

If he gets the hump that's up to him but at least you'll have made him think that he might be looking a bit of a fool.

Get him to read this thread. He's making an arse of himself and disrespecting you. And she definitely knows it, which makes it even more embarrassing.

'The thing that pissed me off most this weekend was her giving my 5yo DS a joker card from a card deck and saying, can you show this to your daddy because it’s him, '

This shows she is thinking about the the next time she will see YOUR husband and is actively planning to get his attention.

I also think that's absolutely horrible to involve a small child in an adult joke and imply to the child their father is anything but wonderful.

They are doing what I call, ' The dance' - flirting under the guise of banter, insults that contradict the passion and excitement they feel for each other and lapping up the attention from each other.

Perhaps one or both wouldn't actually cheat but it's certainly building up to it.

Generally speaking I'm very laid back and non jealous in our marriage. But what you describe would be making me feel very uncomfortable and unhappy. God knows, life is hard enough so your marriage should be your safe, happy place. Your DH should be the one person you can rely on to always make you feel good about yourself, to make you feel that you're the most special woman in their lives. Otherwise why even bother being with them?

If your partner or husband truly loves you and values you then you just know it in your bones. If they're making you feel confused or upset then they don't love in the way you deserve.

I would have a chat with her husband and be direct.

'Your Sharon and my John are acting like teenagers when they are together, are you worried about it? Quite frankly I feel embarrassed that John is acting this way, he doesn't do it with anyone else!'

Husband may be dismissive to you and say his wife Sharon is doing no wrong but he will go away thinking that John has designs in his wife and then he will have an uncomfortable conversation with Sharon and be vigilant at get togethers that John isn't getting too close to his wife.

Get this foolish nonsense stopped in its tracks.

This is the exact sort of thing that would absolutely enrage me in your position. I actually feel second hand anger for you. It's not banter, it's just brazenly flirting in plain sight and then acting faux shocked if it's called out.

I feel rubbish, as PP’s have said this is the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger issue - I do wish I got more affection and respect from him, and should probably be tailing around after him doing this hobby less than I do. I think I’ve kidded myself it’s a fun family activity, but I go along just to avoid feeling like I’m left at home with the baby.

That makes me so sad.

This issue aside, you need to get a hobby yourself and make sure you have time for yourself to do the things you like and to socialise yourself.
Your life shouldn’t revolve around following your DH around and doing whatever he wants.

I too would feel uncomfortable with their behaviour.
I’m not sure if it’s flirting if you say he acts like this with his male friends, but I just find it a bit cringey.

As a PP said, the joker card is a bit odd because she’s thinking about him when he’s not around.

It does sound like they get on really well and it’s possible for males and females to become best friends without the attraction.
This could be happening here, where they just happen to click and get on really well.

But the key here is that you don’t feel comfortable and if he was a half decent partner he would change his behaviour to help you feel more comfortable.

They don’t have to fall out, he just needs to dial it down a bit and be respectful towards your feelings.

If he’s not willing to do that then that will show me just how much respect he has for me and I’d be wondering whether the cons of the relationship are outweighing the pros.

This would really annoy me OP. My ex was very anti cheating & would always say that he didn’t know how people found the time & how he didn’t have the energy. And guess what? Later down the line he had started an emotional affair with a work colleague. As others have said it’s worth reflecting on this as it lulls you in to a false sense of security.

Good advice. You feel uncomfortable and your dh needs to respect this. It might be from your past problems but it might not so in any case your dh needs to step and reassure you.

He called you jealous??

Ask him what it is about her that he thinks you should be jealous of.

Just read more of your posts and the involving your five year old child is beyond acceptable. I’d say to directly tell her to back off from interacting with your child. Tell her in front of all these hobby people that giving a joker card to your child and saying it’s their father is unacceptable. If you have a WhatsApp put it on there for all the group to read. Name and shame. Say that you find her banter uncomfortable as it over steps the boundaries of your dh being your dh. She is going too far.

My DH is very anti-cheating and I’m sure won’t view this as flirting, I think he would be horrified if someone actually came on to him

I'm sorry to say that you are being incredibly naive here. That's what ALL men say. Trust your own eyes and ears, instead of some trope that men trot out to appease their partner.

I know I sound jaded, but my first H said the same thing and guess what, he was shagging other women the whole time. Every single one of my friends husband's has also had an OW at some point in time. The most shocking one, was a mild mannered, plain, unattractive, boring accountant type, and even he had a 6 month affair. That couple worked together, he was (seemingly) never out of his wife's sight, but guess what, they were shagging on their lunch break.

I think late 30's is the prime time for it too, especially if they married young. They are approaching 40, and realise that they haven't sampled enough vagina, and time is running out.

I'd be going nuclear on this I'm afraid. I wouldn't even entertain the holiday without you scenario. No fucking way. You either go together, or no one goes.

I'd also take this woman to one side and tell her to back off. I never did that with my first H, and there were plenty of times I should have. Older and wiser now, and wouldn't hesitate to tell a predatory woman to fuck off.

I'd also be issuing your DH with an ultimatum, he either stops this dead in it's tracks or your marriage is over.

I am happily married now to H number 2. He never makes me feel uncomfortable, and if he did he knows it would be over. But you can never be sure that something might change in the blink of an eye : an attractive woman, a perfect storm of circumstances (like a holiday, with alcohol and skimpy swimwear).

I suggest that you get into his phone and look through everything. This is how I found out that my first H was having sex with my best friend. Both denied it, swore on children lives etc. One night he was drunk and fell asleep. I checked his phone, and BAM, there were all the messages talking about the sex they had had.

Unfortunately I do believe you are being unreasonable. You've stated he is against cheating. So by the sounds of it he has a mate, of the opposite sex and you feel threatened?